Ep790: Andrew Pek – Immersive Learning Experience with VR Technology

Andrew Stotz 00:01
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win an investing, you must take risk. But to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. And I want to welcome all the listeners in New York City to the show. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest, Andrew Peck. Andrew, are you ready to join? Again?

00:38
Yes, I am.

Andrew Stotz 00:39
I'm excited to have you on. And I want to remind listeners that actually, Andrew told us his story of his worst investment ever. Back in 2021, that was episode 376. So I highly recommend you go back and listen to our discussion. And, you know, we were just talking before we turn on the microphone that, you know, what an awful time it was in 2021, you know, like, coming out of the, you know, still deep in the COVID stuff, the impact on business was tough, you know, we both, you know, went through plenty of challenges, just like plenty of the listeners and the viewers. And so, it's great to, to get you back on to talk about, you know, your best investment and what you're doing. And that's really what we're going to do. And so before we get started, let me just make sure that the audience knows you and knows you well. And so let me just introduce you again. So Andrew is co founder of amico XR Inc, a groundbreaking company that leverages virtual reality and artificial intelligence technologies to create immersive, personalized learning experiences available 24/7. He's recognized C suite advisor on innovation and human transformation. Andrews insight on leadership and design thinking had been featured in prominent media outlets such as ABC, NBC, Forbes, and entrepreneur. So Andrew, what have you been doing?

Andrew Pek 02:04
Well, you know, it's funny when you were describing since we spoke last, and the period in which we progressed, this really interesting image popped in my head, if you ever saw the original Blade Runner, when Harrison Ford was the lead actor, it is a like a dark, rainy, you know, just the like dystopian kind of experience for three quarters of the movie. And then eventually, I think he of course, goes off with some attractive woman into the sunset and the clouds part that ray of sunshine starts to come in. Well, I kind of feel like that a little bit. Now that, okay, maybe the clouds are starting to park, there is new energy in the world and lots of opportunities that are emerging, thankfully, because of entrepreneurs like you and I and others. Continue to innovate, continue to be scrappy, as we've discussed, and learning to reinvent themselves. And that's pretty much where I am with my new business that I'm so excited to talk about.

Andrew Stotz 03:13
Yeah, well, it we did come out of darkness. I think one of the reasons why we've never had the big recession, that you know, myself and others felt was coming was because we had a flash recession, that just in a lightning flash, reshaped everything. And you know, there was no slow burn, it was like, you die. And if you can be reborn, great, but most people died. And so what is the whole purpose of a recession? Ultimately, people think of the recession as a problem, but it's the bubble. That's the problem. Recession is a solution, where we clear out the oversupply and the weaker players and the like. And so, however ruthless that sounds, I think that we can say that that probably is what we went through, and therefore, we already did a lot of the cleanup through a longer term prolonged recession would have done. That's my assessment of kind of what we've just been through. Yeah,

Andrew Pek 04:13
no, I think that's a both a fair and healthy perspective. That to harvest, you know, crop the and to get a better yield from one year to the next. You've got to prune the vines, right, prune things, the weeds grow, right. So I think you're absolutely right. And it's an opportunity during that time to sort of reexamine and reflect on okay, what might I do differently, you know, we all kind of gone back to zero, right? And so, like that Chinese symbol of danger opportunity, some will choose to see this as danger and others will view it as opportunity. Those who view it as opportunity are the ones who are going to thrive.

Andrew Stotz 04:58
Those who see it as opportunity So the ones that I invite back on the podcast, so tell us interested because for the listeners out there that don't see the video, I see some interesting things in your background. You know, of course, you've got a book on Led Zeppelin and you've got a picture painting of The Beatles. You know, you and I are very close. Yeah. Do you have a turntable? Is that what's on your damn,

Andrew Pek 05:19
that's a turntable. I've got my guitar. So I'm a music aficionado that guitar is more for show. I know a few riffs here and there. I think I really wanted to be an 80s Rock Band, long hair kind of guy. Just in fact, the other day, my family, I went to see Pat Benatar. So it was great fun. So yeah, music has been something it's a passion of mine. More again, as a spectator than anything. But

Andrew Stotz 05:49
But I want to know what is on your sofa. Yes,

Andrew Pek 05:53
then is my meta quest three VR headset. That is the platform in which my new company called the Miko XR runs on, I can run on older versions as well. But you know, it's a much more dynamic experience, both in terms of VR and AR,

Andrew Stotz 06:16
you know, you can just explain for the listeners and the viewers out there, who never even had those things on their head. And they don't even know what that thing is, man.

Andrew Pek 06:27
My history a little bit dates itself. But like back in the late 90s, I went to a presentation on VR technology. And I thought it was like, like, you know, like Star Trek kind of stuff was like really crazy stuff. And it evolved for many years with applications to do simulations, and, you know, from hospitals, you know, medical equipment to industrial equipment. And it's evolved since and then of course, the gaming industry. So when you put a headset on, it really puts you into a three dimensional immersive kind of experience in which you can see and visualize objects, or simulations that would either be for entertainment, obviously, which is huge, or for some kind of, typically sort of technical application. So I've always been interested in this, because my background has been to advise top leaders to help them build capabilities to be more creative and innovative. And so a lot of the work I've done traditionally has been to teach certain skills, right or on leadership, innovation, product design, business development, all those, you know, from abstract to kind of concrete skills. And I always felt like what are the new ways that technology that you can engage people to both absorb learning and get more engaged, not just sort of a boring, traditional kind of training program, but something that would really involve them in a more immersive way. And so of course, we just talked about over the last couple of years zoom and mural and these other platforms, excellent ways to connect with people from all around the world, which is really enhanced our ability to connect, but I found we're still static, right, it didn't really create that deeper human experience. Well, very fortunately, my team and I successfully prototyped a solution in which you can bring an immersive learning experience through a headset like that, in which you can talk to a coach avatar who can teach you just about anything, there is no limit to the application. So if you're interested in finance, interested in investing, you're interested in sales leadership, getting prepared for your career, just about any kind of topic matter. Thankfully, through generative AI and large language models, you are able to obtain information at your fingertips incredibly, so very quickly. But the difference is it's the combination of that intelligence, artificial intelligence combined with a VR experience. So imagine you and I being in an as avatars, right? A facsimile of us or something like us, interacting with another human being who is interested in mastering any particular topic, or getting support in any kind of particular challenge through simulations or role plays or evaluation. Again, it's pretty dynamic a little bit, you know, like trippy, you know, because when you are in the VR headset is like, wow, this avatars interacting with me and getting to know me, right, and I'm getting to know that avatar and building a relationship If you were on in a in a

Andrew Stotz 10:03
profound way, and how does that like? What's the advantages for someone? Let's just say, you know, a traditional guys like us, let's say we learned through maybe reading physical books or those types of things. And nowadays, you know, people go on the internet and they search or they type in a chat GPT or something like that. What is the benefit of using this as a mechanism to get the information?

Andrew Pek 10:31
Yeah, that's a great, so it's, you know, it's the design is not, it's not to suggest, oh, this is going to replace all forms of learning, I, you know, I would be hypocritical based on my background, not to suggest that it's nothing quite like, you know, in person human experience, but that there are multiple modalities to do that, like you said, reading, listening, you know, there's variety of ways to sort of absorb content at sort of cognitive level, but also emotional to have shared kinds of experiences, whether it's with yourself, let's say you're taking a walk in nature, I mean, there's could be learning experience there, right. So there's obviously many ways to learn. But with this technology, this provides you with an additional resource that is personalized, it really matches what your needs are at your pace. And it is available to you whenever so it provides you that incredible scale and flexibility and convenience. So if you're working on a problem, or let's say you're going through a learning module of some sort, you're learning something on how to be more effective salesperson. And you have to go through a progression of modules, you'd have this ongoing coach, right. And maybe there's still an instructor, a human instructor, but you this gives you the ability to in case you didn't understand anything in a training program, the traditional training program, this would be augmenting that by supporting you, a tutor or coach throughout the process? And

Andrew Stotz 12:16
how would that how would it get the information it's bringing to you? Would it get it from studying the materials of that particular trainer in that case? Or would he get it from more general sources?

Andrew Pek 12:27
Yes. So our solution is it's configured to those experts. You know, the content is important. So yes, and on a generic level, yes, it can work, it can draw from what sort of general information and insights available, you know, on the web, right. But what makes our solution unique is it's curated and configured to the experts so that it learns, you know, you teach the avatar and the avatar then teaches others, which is for the teacher, if you will, is a huge, sort of, like I, you know, I know, as sometimes guru, you know, lecturing and teaching, and you know, I can't be everywhere. So for me, even for my own business, this is, this is like an appendage of what I can provide at scale to others, without necessarily having to show up in person. And,

Andrew Stotz 13:29
you know, one of the things I've developed over the years is an online course called valuation masterclass. And I offer that every 10 weeks or so. And it's a six week course. And what I learned from the COVID time was that you don't want to be in front of students, you know, giving PowerPoint presentations. And what I wanted to do is I created videos, 10 minute, maybe 20 minute videos of content. And I told stories, and I showed examples. And I have about 30 hours of content that I've perfected over the years. And now what I do is I drip that content to my students on a weekly basis. So they know exactly what they're going to get. And I track their performance to give them a report on Friday, an update on where everybody's at. And I kick people out if they're not up to date, because I say it's a bootcamp, I do it in what I call a boot camp format, this material, and then what I do is I go live on Mondays and Fridays. And I do that for an hour to an hour and a half. And then they consume the content. And I'm just curious, thinking about what you're doing with this. How what would be different or what would be the benefit. For instance, if I was the same, I could bring this into your type of platform, what would be the benefit that my students would get?

Andrew Pek 14:54
I'm pretty dramatic because it would you know, ingest to your content become as master as are you in the subject, first of all, so on a sort of intellectual basis, it has that same level of facility and intelligence, if you will. But then it also is there to, you know, so that as students go in a more static environment, so they get the videos, which is great. And I do that a lot as well in my programming, but this is much more interactive, dynamic, and even do it yourself a little human centric. So you are actually talking to somebody like you that if you are unclear on something, or you want to probe further, or even get additional guidance or resources, this, this solution would facilitate that, right. And then it can also provide, you mentioned analytics, they can provide you, you know, for example, you get, you know, information transcripts, you don't have to even take notes, right. So it can provide you with a record of what you're learning. So again, reinforces that through other sort of output, not just the experience when you're in the headset.

Andrew Stotz 16:18
So let's talk about the aspect of kind of populating data into it, which, for instance, I have, everything I've ever done with this course is recorded. And it's audio video recorded. And the PowerPoint, the presentations that I give I, you know, are very polished in PowerPoint that they're watching, and I'm talking to them face to face and speaking directly to them. And then every single most of the time, when I do a live session, I finished a live session in an hour. And then I say, All right, we're open up for office hours. And then I'll go on for another half an hour to an hour where I say you can ask me any question. So I have recordings of all of those office hours. You know, and I probably have 100 questions. Now, since I've had 16 boot camps, you know, I probably have a great database of the types of questions that I've been asked, would that be? How will we populate this? You know, with, with the right information? And how do we also protected so that that information is not just dispersed out into the world, and then all of a sudden, the competitive advantage I'm trying to give my students you know, they can get anywhere? Sure,

Andrew Pek 17:37
I mean, it would be the follow similar model, you know, be not to go into too much gory detail, but the light a license arrangement, so proprietary information. So Andrew Stotz, you know, boot camps, you know, and it could be, you know, either you have one master or you could have several sort of avatars that we would design for you, in order to provide that you could have many, and even the possibility of having multiple interact at the same time that that experience. So it's not just you and one person could be multiple bootcamp leaders, if you will, that represents your information. And obviously, the person who is experiencing that purchasing the buyer would, you know, there's, there's privacy there, right, privacy in terms of your content, but privacy also in terms of their experience, right. So when we're going into corporations to provide this, you know, inevitably, depending on the subject matter, there might be what people like about us, it's, it's safe, you know, like I can you can, you know, the psychological thing somebody smart is used as sometimes a question can be intimidating, but they can use this technology to ask that, quote, unquote, dumb question, right. So again, it gives you just some extra horsepower around your expertise. That would be safeguarded for you as a business owner, but also safeguarded in a intimate way for the learner.

Andrew Stotz 19:12
So you know, in this case, my situation may not be the optimum. This So my next question is, I have students 130 students in this boot camp number 16. It started three weeks ago, we're halfway through it. And they're from about 12 different countries, including some students that really have very low income, and they are they have a real passion for learning valuation, but they don't have you know, they're living in maybe Nigeria, and they living in maybe Egypt or they're living in Cambodia, or Philippines where, you know, annual income is tiny. I'm assuming that these guys wouldn't be able to buy the types of devices and things that would be necessary but at a corporate training level, it would definitely be possible but Tell us more about the access. Yeah, so

Andrew Pek 20:03
you know, it's, we call it a Miko XR for a reason, it's extended reality or mixed reality, which implies VR is sort of our signature, but because of the three dimensional immersive sort of experience, but you know, it, you know, mobiles and other so if you cannot afford or you're not where you're at a place where you can put your headset on, because sometimes people don't want to put the headset on, we recognize that you can still maintain continuity with your coach avatar, your Stotz having to art that would be more on your phone, right? Or augmented, you know, because of the hardware and it continues to evolve, we're not in the business of the hardware, obviously, that is a manufacturer who produces that sort of thing, but because of the innovations around that, the capacity of that is increasing dramatically. And therefore, our ability to configure the visual experience is pretty powerful, even where you can do it in an augmented fashion. Right? Where you were that avatars like, there they are sitting in your living room.

Andrew Stotz 21:22
So what you the answer to that question is that for someone that can't have a headset, he's still going to have access to the avatar into the yes, you're not going to have that immersive. Reality, but there's still going to get me the, ya

Andrew Pek 21:36
know, and all transparency is obviously a new fledgling startup around this, we recognize some of the barriers to costs and, you know, entry because of that, right? Obviously, it's perfectly suited, which is kind of our primary focus is corporate, right. But over time, we, you know, hope to expand that into the general public, where individuals or entrepreneurs, you know, can obtain that, because we see if, you know, the ability to scale and, you know, eventually somebody buys a computer, right? You know, at one point a computer was so cost prohibitive for everybody, but now, they'll either have that, or at least an iPhone. So

Andrew Stotz 22:23
what maybe you can describe what you think, is the ideal setting. So if someone's listening, and they hear, okay, I've got that setting. This is ideal for the, you know, for the adoption of this and getting the maximum value out of it, what would it be?

Andrew Pek 22:39
You mean, in terms of the learning kind of application, what

Andrew Stotz 22:42
I mean, it's not to say I'm a mid size business, I'm a large business, I'm a small business, I've got 1000 People, I'm trying to train I've got 50 people I'm trying to train. You know, I'm trying to train people through zoom courses, or I'm trying to, you know, do video content, like who would be able to immediately benefit from this?

Andrew Pek 23:02
Yeah, I mean, you know, sir, certainly mid to large sized corporations or even smaller corporations who can't afford expensive training or trainers who are looking to provide any type of training you know, from onboarding new employees. So imagine when you hire somebody, there's generally an immediate and over let's just say 90 day period of time, then become familiar with the company the policies, the vision, the plans, you know, this tool would be it's very useful in that capacity, but then an ongoing basis so that when you have you know, courses that you're required either specific to your job or generalize for our management leadership courses, you can access that just like you would our course library, right. So the new program on XYZ, you download that so it can be again, what we've explained to our clients is think of this is again, it's just another platform from training but differences it's at the convenience of your home Most people nowadays are spending some time at home that always in the office so they don't have to worry about going into the physical space to have the experience of an immersive learning experience. They can literally do that sitting on their couch which oh by the way, unlike gaming you're not moving around you know a lot of people think oh my god, you know the dizziness and with VR, it's not anything like that. You're it says much more stationary experience, right?

Andrew Stotz 24:48
Just like you know, relaxing Yeah,

Andrew Pek 24:51
it could be very relaxing, right?

Andrew Stotz 24:55
It Well, it's interesting. It's there's a good book by Michael McCalla wits called clockwork And it's about standardizing your business and all that. And one of the things that he addresses is, you know, the hard thing is that there's standard operating procedures, and people write those out. And, you know, that's like the way that people try to, you know, train in the company. And what I liked about what he talked about was the idea of doing short videos, rather than doing the SOPs in a in that traditional sense. And he was talking about startups and mid sized businesses. So this just made me think of him, by the way, he was episode 618 on the podcast, so, but I was just thinking that, you know, for those people that are much more video oriented, you could be developing your standard operating procedures and doing that and presenting that through, you know, your technology.

Andrew Pek 25:51
Yeah, exactly. It is, it is very, you know, intended to be very visually engaging. Because we recognize that's, especially nowadays, you know, I've written several books, I write articles still, and I like you, I read books, I stone, there's nothing like a hardback book. And, you know, I'm like, one of those geeks, you know, carrying a big hardback book on the airplane, kind of thing. Not necessarily Kindle, but, you know, we're a YouTube society, you know, we want that sort of quick, you know, in just knowledge and information, our attention span is unfortunately weighing, but this provides you with that 10 be at your pace, and but still absorbing kind of experience, right? You're not going to necessarily be I mean, you can, you know, hours at a time, you know, in a headset, necessarily. But that's why we were designing it. So there's different modalities to take into consideration as human needs.

Andrew Stotz 27:02
And how would it go, for instance, if you talk to a company, and you're presenting it to them, and they're interested, and they want to understand I will be on board this what's required, what does it cost? You know, those types of things? Can you just explain how, how the implementation goes?

Andrew Pek 27:20
Yeah, so typically, you know, begins with some, you know, obviously, we'll go pre console, which will usually involve a demo, just so that they get to experience something that maybe is more generic, just so they get a feel, because there's also some very sophisticated users who, like get it right away, and now there's maybe not, so we recognize that, and then, then we really start to do some, you know, pre planning and diagnostics. So we're trying to understand what are the skills or the capabilities or issues that they're trying to address that this technology could really accelerate in, have a more dramatic impact, right. And at scale again, so then we'll do a diagnostic. And then based on that, we'll usually, then configure, sometimes I pilot. So we take a small group, to just test that this meets their learning needs, and then scale it right. So if if you want to deliver, you know, so we take a handful of people to just maybe perfect it, like you would any new technology introducing into the workforce, and then scale it, you know, you're talking about 100 1000, or somewhere in between, or more or less than, you know, then you can distribute it. And usually, then it's done on a monthly license basis, we recommend typically, usually, most learning kinds of experience they get the full sort of benefit is you want to try and do this for at least 90 days, right? Again, that may vary depending on the kind of learning objectives you have. Which by the way, we're in the diagnostic and the assessment phase, we are also because of my background, other members on my team, we are in a traditional way, mapping out what the learning journey is right? We are also trying to understand what content they want. A client wants to make sure our avatars ingest and become masters at so that they can then educate others.

Andrew Stotz 29:34
And how would you pitch it to let's just say two different types of businesses, one that really knows nothing about any of this, and they don't have that much sophistication in any of this. Whereas you've got maybe a bigger business that has been doing a lot in the training space and is looking, you know, they're constantly looking for new ways of doing things. How would you pitch it for those two different you know, good groups of businesses. Yeah,

Andrew Pek 30:02
I mean, what I suggested earlier with the less sophisticated or newer to this sort of technology, we, you know, start small, right. So why having a pilot phase is important for larger corporation who is used to using and is innovative, you might be able to just say this is the objectives and configure the solution, and then roll it out right. Both in there, there's two aspects that there's obviously a cost consideration, they're ready to invest dollars to or they're both in terms of half hardware and software, but then also the change management, they they're confident that this is this new way of engaging the learning experience in their workforce will be easily adopted, right. But because it isn't, in generally speaking, pretty new, we're like, prepared to like, sometimes go slow to go fast, right? To make sure that people understand the power behind the technology, and that we also configure the right solution for them. You

Andrew Stotz 31:15
know, one of the things that I do is I work with family businesses, and one of the benefits of SAP family businesses is that they can have some continuity in their culture, in their values in the way they run the business. And I think the best example in Asia for that is, is Toyota, which for, you know, almost 100 years has perpetrated its values, and its engineering focus, and that type of thing. And I was thinking about it from my own business, my coffee business, where my business partner and I are the owners, and, you know, we want to convey, you know, how to behave in certain situations, we want to convey the values of the business, to all employees, so that they get it and they feel like they're really joining something. Now, we can do that through some basic videos, but you know, we just don't have time and we try and then this and that, and I'm just curious, you know, if somebody wants to convey, you know, that that type of message in every situation to say, you know, how do you handle a customer that's mad, you know, or that type

Andrew Pek 32:23
of thing that you can, you can do that scenario. But there's a couple interesting points that you made there, one, you can do that simulation or scenario based, so that, like, say that customers difficult, you know, how do you handle the situation again, and sort of this safe, you know, unbiased, not that it, you can't build judgment or evaluation, it will. But it's also a great place to practice, right? You know, that's why they call it meditation practice. You know, the, you have to keep doing it. Any good physiologist, or sports person also knows you gotta keep exercising and working out. It's practice, right, in order to perform well. And that's what this enables you to do. But you said something else that I don't know if that's where you were going, Andrew, but this has this unique and we are exploring this now with a couple organizations as a legacy building tool. So people who have strong founders or ones who don't necessarily even have to be alive stone, which that's the tricky part, you know, how do you preserve the history and legacy of Toyota, for example? Well, let Why not an avatar of the founders is close to representing them, and their story and their legacy, to ensure that that's an enduring kind of story. I know.

Andrew Stotz 33:59
My mind is on fire with that, that is so yeah.

Andrew Pek 34:01
You know, so, I mean, we're talking to, you know, some museums and foundations that you know, have, you know, bringing history to life, through the voice of people who have, you know, passed on to share their points of view on whatever particular topic, whether it's art or civic education or anything in between, right. So it's,

Andrew Stotz 34:30
it reminds me of something I have kind of a funny fantasy here in Thailand. And that is I've read, you know, at least 50 If not 75 or 100 books on the US Civil War. I've watched every show every video I could over the years. And I know these generals pretty well, you know, and, and I know the Civil War very well. And so I thought to myself, I definitely could be the best probably the best US Civil War history teacher in Thailand because I suspect there's not a lot of US Civil War history teachers in Thailand. But I was thinking that if I taught that class at a university, each class I would dress up as a different general. And I would come in, in character as William Tecumseh Sherman as general customer, as you know, Robert E. Lee, and as all of these different characters long street and you know, all of these characters and come in and speak in their voice, where their outfit and, and get across what's going on in their mind at that time. You know, Stonewall Jackson is a great example where he did his Valley campaign in the Shenandoah Valley, one of the most successful campaigns of all time, but he never ever, ever told any of his lieutenants, what they were doing until the day they did it. What a character, you know, it's incredible. So I was just thinking about what you're saying legacy and trying to bring the vision of history, you know, and legacy owners and founders, you know, into real life. Well, and that's,

Andrew Pek 36:05
it's so funny, he said that because not too long ago, about a month ago, I was in this city. And I hadn't seen it, it's kind of a funny story. I went to Grant's tomb, you know, like using Grant's tomb once Ulysses S Grant. Very interesting, somewhat stern story to start kind of beautiful at the same time. And a very interesting human being who's I think, a bit of an enigma. Right, and in his influence, US government and politics and slavery, you know, Abraham Lincoln, of course, you know, gets lots of accolades. But Ulysses S Grant is a much more powerful figure in our American politics, and people realize, and I was thinking at the time, like, oh, this would be really cool to bring his legacy in this dynamic. I haven't yet approached the Grant Museum, but maybe I will. But you could literally do that to do exactly what you described, to create that visceral experience, as if it were told from, you know, the, these individuals who, well,

Andrew Stotz 37:20
these guys, these guys wrote memoirs, and yeah, exactly. They have their voice. And his memoir was particularly amazing, because he basically went bankrupt at the end of his life, and lost everything. And he

Andrew Pek 37:33
did. And what people didn't realize, because of his ill health, he enlisted Mark Twain, which is part of the reason why I went to New York, he was originally from Ohio. So he's pretty experienced in New York, because he became really good friends with Mark Twain. So can you imagine doing something like this, and then not just only having the perspective of Ulysses S Grant, but you'd have Mark Twain's point of view? Or you'd have, like you said, Sherman, you know, some of his, you know, generals that he fought alongside of them. You know, again, it's limitless.

Andrew Stotz 38:12
The other thing about grant that was so amazing was, you know, at the end of his life, he got throat cancer, and so we couldn't dictate his book anymore. He had to write it by pencil. And he was in extreme pain. And he wrote a 600 word 600,000 Word 700 page, something like that in incredible detail. And there's pictures of him. You know, it's funny that I'm having a throat problem right now. But it's pictures of him, you know, with something wrapped around his throat with a shawl in a rocking chair, you know, just just amazing to think about bringing that to life.

Andrew Pek 38:47
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Now, you've inspired me, I'm going to contact that grant GCM. But yeah, so I mean, that, you know, that's the idea, you know, to, you know, we're obviously, you know, I have a strong sort of bias toward learning and then how do you create more immersive experience? What's remarkable is that to do it in a way that brings both knowledge, you know, we want to learn, right, you know, we want to absorb information. But you also want wisdom. And that comes through interaction and trial and error and experience, right. And, and you can't, you can't always get that like you want it to just searching the internet or even reading a book necessarily why you want to book club right or why you want to go to our seminar, but you can't always do that either. And especially and we're partnering with organizations to provide this to people who are in economically disadvantaged situations. So partnering with corporations who can help us underwrite this, but to people who, you know, don't have the advantages, like you and I, and not just because of the color of our skin, but just economic circumstances, we got, you know, a leg up, so to speak. So this can provide a more sort of, I do I daresay, sort of democratized solution, right? Why do all the executives in the senior the ranks of organizations get the high price coaching and consultants, this can be provided to everybody, everybody gets their own coach.

Andrew Stotz 40:40
So in wrapping up, tell us where we should go to learn about more and, you know, close out with any last words?

Andrew Pek 40:47
Yeah, so I, you know, we have our landing page, which is still under progress that will have demos and all that sort of thing. forthcoming. But obviously, you know, Miko, xr.com and then if people are interested, and they're serious about understanding how this might really profoundly help their organization, they certainly can contact me at Andrew. P. At a Miko xr.com. So the P is for Peck, right? So

Andrew Stotz 41:23
perfect. links to that in the show notes. So they can just click on those,

Andrew Pek 41:27
and then they can drop me a line, I'd love to begin a conversation we can, you know, talk about a demo and that sort of thing. So well,

Andrew Stotz 41:35
it's great getting you back on and you know, catching up with what you're doing. And you know, it's exciting. And I really wish you well. And I know for the listeners and viewers. If you're interested in this, you see some value for you click on the links in the show notes and it'll go there and you can learn more. Andrews always open to talk and interact. And I've appreciated that in our relationship that we built through through the podcast. So any parting words?

Andrew Pek 42:03
Thank you so much, Andrew to have me on. It's great to see you. And you know, I am excited about the future. So back to the beginning of our conversation The clouds have parted and the rays of sunshine are beaming in. So Blessings to you and everyone else. Abundance

Andrew Stotz 42:19
ladies and gentlemen, this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.