Ep787: Rizwan Memon – Have Enough Liquidity When Shorting Naked Calls

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. And I want to thank my listeners in Canada, specifically Ontario, Canada today for joining in fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests, Rizwan Memon. Are you ready to join the mission? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, let me introduce you to the audience. So Rizwan is the founder and president of Rizz international Canadian Canada based financial education firm helping 1000s of people across the globe maximize financial success through trading, having 17 years of experience behind him. Rizwan is a seasoned expert in eight figure stocks and option trading, starting at 16. With just $5,000. He has made 10 and a half million dollars in trading profits. With 123,000 followers on Instagram and vast global audience to new news trading advice. Rizwan has established himself as a voice of authority in the financial market in 2023. He secured solid returns of 70% on his seven figure trading account, Rizwan take a minute and tell us about the unique value you are bringing to this wonderful world.

Rizwan Memon 01:34
Yeah, no, thanks for having me, Andrew. So for me, it's all about transparency. There's a lot of, I would say fluff around, you know, the trading, you know, the industry. And of course, there's a lot of information, I don't think anyone has starved for information, I think it's more so not only just information for information sake, but actually having it being proven tested and verified. So my unique proposition is, look, everything I do everything, I take wins, losses, everything is and has been effectively shared with the world. You know, it's a tough gig. But for me, transparency is number one. So that's how I differentiate myself. I want to help people, but do so with a proven track record, make sure that people understand that look, you know, there's a lot of noise out there and to really actually put your neck out there have skin in the game. That's big, and that's not as common as many people might think, in this social media day and age of trading.

Andrew Stotz 02:40
And is that that? How are you displaying that? Are you doing that through a program a system? Or are you displaying it are people copycatting or how does it work in the way you have good transparency?

Rizwan Memon 02:53
Yeah, great question. So for me, all my trades, every single one, from my community, membership community, they get access to everything real time, so they get their know my entry of Woodstock and I don't trade illiquid stuff, I don't trade like anything that's, you know, opaque. So for me, it's all large caps, enough volume, enough liquidity, they you know, they know my entry price, they know my thought process around the trade. And of course, also when I exit, right, so if people don't literally log everything, they can see i log it for myself, but even if someone were just come in and take a look and see okay, he entered here exit their debut to see that one. Number two, I not only show my p&l for a trade, but also my total account, a lot of people just cherry pick, maybe they you know, their trading options, these nice big triple digit winning percentages. But then they won't show you know, maybe the five Dutch that they had. And maybe those five losing trades were even more than whatever they made in that single, larger percentage gainer tree. So it's very, I would say, for lack of a better word sketchy. So for me, I don't just cherry pick and share specific trade. I share the trade whether it's a win or loss in terms of not only just screenshots, but video as well to directly off my platform. In fact, I've been gone on record to be so transparent. And this is bad. I've used to used to keyword used to share my account number for my brokerage. The reason I would do it because I know in this industry, I've been around a long time, people would have two accounts. And what they would do is they'll take you know in options terms or stock, maybe they short the stock in one and then buy it long the stock and another and then they'll show whichever one they made money and you don't know it could be the same a different account, but it's the same brokerage. So for me, I went as far as even share my account number to keep it so that when people see my p&l, people see the account value because I risk my real capital. They can see it's not a demo trade demo account. It's not a paper trading account. Oh, they see me in the video. And they could see the account number. I used to do that up until a year ago, or actually two years ago, I still share everything but without the account number because I had a little a scare in the middle of the night. I got like a notification, my phone was going off. And I'm like, Why? Why is this like two factor authentication going off? Why is there like, all this stuff going on? Why am I getting like, can you confirm where country? My brokerage is letting me know that someone was trying to access my account? And with that brokerage account, the user name is the account number. Do someone one of my followers whoever, right, there's everyone who knows, you never know what's where they're taking that account number, putting it in, and then maybe trying passwords. Not realizing, maybe, you know, maybe this guy will just authorize it, whatever, maybe some lapse of judgment and to build and get it out and what they would do. But, you know, so for me, I realized even transparency has a cost. So when I say when I know, because it was crazy, when I would share that people will be like, really, you know, like, are you crazy? Why are you doing this? And I'm like, No, I know, I understand the risk. I'm doing it for the greater good, where's my mission? But of course, that was when that happened. It was a bit disheartening, but I mean, what do you expect, right? Like, if you're gonna if you're gonna, you know, kind of invite that. But anyways, it transparency. Yes, that's my key. I live and die by that. That's my number one differentiator. And that's ultimately, for me and my values to live up to.

Andrew Stotz 06:37
So now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be take a minute and tell us about the circumstances leading up to it and tell us your story.

Rizwan Memon 06:47
Yeah, so it's funny. It's kind of odd at the time that we're recording this right now, Andrew. It just matches up with what's going on with the whole meme stock fiasco right now, I don't know, paying attention. But

Andrew Stotz 07:02
so it's May 16 2024. And just recap to the world. What's happened with meme stocks and Gamestop and all that. Sure,

Rizwan Memon 07:13
sure. So on Sunday, whatever that was the 13th or 14th, sorry, the 13th or 12th of May 24. Roaring kitty, you know, DFV, that internet personality, you know, the Wall Street bets Reddit type of person, obviously, an international phenomenon to an extent, he effectively posted on Twitter for the first time, and it wasn't anything specific or substantive, just a picture, or like a meme, like, you know, it's kind of a gaming meme where he's like, he's sitting on the chair, and then there's another, there's an arrow, and then now he's leaning forward, meaning he's in he's locked in. So that was it. And it's crazy, because Gamestop had already started moving up the week prior, but it's so wild, that you posted on Sunday, and then now we're three days in it, the stock has just gone absolutely bonkers, but you know, two 300% gain. And it's funny, because the time if we rewind to this, my biggest losing trade, so to speak, was around GameStop. And it's just so crazy that I'm having remember we booked enter, booked transient, we booked this call this interview weeks back weeks ago, right? Maybe even a month ago. And I'm literally just crazy, because just we're just dealing with this trade today. So it's kind of deja vu. It's a similar kind of trade, actually. Which blows my mind because I was thinking about this. And I'm like I have I have an interview meeting with Andrew, and look at what's transpiring. And I'm gonna be talking about literally, almost the exact scenario, but from three years ago, so to get into it, my biggest loss was back in 2021. So, you know, a little over three years ago, and as you everyone's should have expected it was on gamestop now, people will probably think well Gamestop like that thing went up. 500% like, you know, it was going crazy. And you know, all of retail and obviously even institutions piled in to take advantage. How do you lose money like you beg held? You know, you just bought it then just held through it? No, I took the smart money approach and I decided to effectively bet against the stock going above a certain ceiling. So I'm not going to get into the complexities for for your viewers and whoever and I'm sure you already they know but just for a broader audience understanding for the sake of time, I was essentially saying that the stock at that time pre split, get a stock price split for two under something over the past year, but I was saying, At that time, it's going to stay below $300 per share. So we had already run up to 300%, a Gamestop had already gone up. And I will remind people that this was and still is a pretty much you know, massively, I would say disgruntled business that is still, you know, not in any great shape or form even after past, you know, three years. So, anyways, the point is, I'm like, alright, this stock is like, it was literally on the verge of bankruptcy, massive cash flow issues. Anyway, like Andrew, you know, that you know, the details about dates from a valuation standpoint, this is your forte. So even first for someone like me, who's not a valuation masters, especially as but even I know a bit and I knew that, okay, this is unsustainable, like, you know, someone's gonna get hurt, somebody's gonna get damaged. So I'm going to come in, I'm going to say, look, I'm going to put a ceiling on this, I'm going to say, if I want the stock to stay below 300. Reasonable, it's already gone up to 300%. So from a probability standpoint, it's very, very rare. And, you know, utilizing standard deviation saying that, it's going to go up 300%, and another 150 100%. After that, remember, so I was like, alright, the numbers are on my side, the probabilities might have been like, 99, maybe 99.5% in my favor. But that's the black swan event. What happened was I loaded up so I shorted call options, naked call options. And I know people are gonna be like, Oh, you, you had it coming? No, the rationale was that look. Like I said, probabilities, I wasn't shorting it directly. I wasn't shorting the calls when it was like 50 bucks. And then I would just carry no, it had already gone up. And I'm like, Okay, this makes sense. So I loaded up a little bit, nothing substantive. Okay, I left enough room, I'm aware of the risk of, you know, theoretical unlimited risk of shorting the call options. Now, what happened was, I will never forget this. He was an after hours, and the stocks gone up 300% Already did go up to around $500 per share high. He went from 300 to 500, at about two days. And that day, it went to 500. And pre after hours was the day Elon Musk on Twitter, again, Twitter back then said game stock. Okay, when he tweeted that, in after hours, I still cannot fathom this kind of move of tweet. Again, remember, this is the first time anything like this has happened from a meme stock Wall Street bets, you know, pump, stick it to hedge funds. And this is that this is not, there's not precedent remember, even for someone like me, who at this time, you know, had been doing it for 14 years. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's ever been this kind of retail driven raid or are this massive coming together, the only thing I can think of in the real world with maybe Occupy Wall Street back in 2008 to that night, but that wasn't the real world. They just, you know, you know, We're protesting with pickets, nothing from

Andrew Stotz 13:16
taking money away from institutions. They weren't doing that. And even that

Rizwan Memon 13:20
was a dud, because like you just people stay for a few days. And then they went home. This was like this concentrated, like, attack on attack on bonds. And I get it. I'm like, okay, great. I get that I get the notion behind. I get the rationale behind it. But anyways, I was like, Alright, fine. It's now this is just ridiculous, like I'm coming in. And then, like I said, when Elon Musk tweeted, I knew at that moment when the stock went up, like another 100% after hours. I knew for lack of a better word that I was in trouble. So that night, I remember I had to get some groceries. Again. I've been doing it for 14 years number I started at 16 years old. I started in 2008. Just before you know, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and I remember, imagine being 16 I still remember those names. Yeah. Right. Lehman?

Andrew Stotz 14:09
Like one. One question I have for you is at an after hours, could you do anything about the trade? Or you had to wait? Yep.

Rizwan Memon 14:16
I couldn't do anything. It was an options trade. So that's a good question. I'm sitting there, already knowing the calculation of where my p&l will be next day, what my account value will be next day because, you know, once the stock price when the options in the money I can just see from my intrinsic value, like, it doesn't really mean it's like, look at the numbers and my crudeness. I just knew I was screwed, for lack of a better word. So I had to literally wait to options market open at 9:30am Eastern New York time. And I remember going to get groceries. I was like, miserable. And I went in the parking lot for the grocery store. Don't worry, I didn't cry, but I just sat there. I just sat there because I knew This is gonna be a big one. So what I can tell, you know, your listeners and watchers is, and I in fact transparently shared this in video, again, not a cherry pick screenshot or the actual video of my platform. Look, guys, it's real $160,000 loss on a single trade. And that transpired in two, three days. So a span of two to three days went from. Okay, yeah, you know, I have my cap here, this is where it's going to be probabilities are 99% in my favor to just absolutely getting blown out of the water. How

Andrew Stotz 15:36
did you close? You close the trade first thing in the morning? Or how did that? How did it end?

Rizwan Memon 15:40
Yeah, how it ended was I had to close, I had to close because when what happened was, this move was so sorry, this move is so unprecedented. The brokerage has changed the margin requirements. If you remember, like the whole, they weren't allowed to trade it, you know, the Robin Hood, they like taking the buy button away. You know, I was like, behind Go ahead, take whatever away but I'm already in this trade. So for me, I couldn't close it regardless, up until 9:30am. So eventually, I had to bite the bullet when there was

Andrew Stotz 16:07
there's enough liquidity or there's the ability to actually exit wasn't hampered by the price, no or okay. So you can just,

Rizwan Memon 16:15
I don't know, liquidity issues, there were enough, there was way too much liquidity in that option chain in that stock. Because everyone was just buying options, not realizing like, when you're buying options with such a high implied volatility, it's so expensive. So I was trying to be the smart money. I'm like, I want to short the optimal to collect the premium. The

Andrew Stotz 16:34
reason why I ask is sometimes when you have a stop loss, let's say that you're expecting you're protecting on the downside that sometimes it can below, you know,

Rizwan Memon 16:43
yeah, no stop loss orders. As you know, in after hours, you can have, you know, no stop losses where you can have limit words, but options do not trade in after hours. So that's why it's key that I point out that it was an options trade. So it's not like I could, I felt like I saw the tweet or like, the moment I started going up, I could exit No, I was just sitting there, and I'm just along for the ride.

Andrew Stotz 17:02
So how did you feel when you close the trade?

Rizwan Memon 17:04
I felt pretty horrendous because I'm like, it's not necessarily the loss. To me the numbers and the circumstances. And I look back and I'm like, it was a black swan event. I can't make it. I can't not make any excuses for it. But it was a black swan event. I hated myself for so long. Because I'm like, How can I do this? Like I've spent 14 years at that time? You know, it's been my entire adult life that I've been doing this. And I'm like, how can I make this mistake? Like how can I size into this? But then I realized, no, I done the proper sizing. I just never accounted for something that's up 300% in a span of a few days to double again. And of course, you have options. And I didn't expect you know, Elon Musk of all people again, he didn't own Twitter slash x at that time, but he was obviously still really big in the moment. He tweeted that. I knew. Alright, Ilan, it takes about I knew that I'm done at that point. So luckily, I didn't blow up my account. Contrary to believe I know a lot of traders, you know, they have this thing where like they blew up an account. Knock on wood. I have not blown up an account. But it was a big drawdown. It was a big hit. I didn't trade for like, I think a few days, which I know it doesn't sound too bad. But for me, it was a big thing. I didn't even look at markets. I'm like so, so how would you?

Andrew Stotz 18:28
How would you describe the lessons that you learned?

Rizwan Memon 18:32
What I learned from that is when you are shorting calls, or naked calls, that strategy can work. If you have enough liquidity, it's fine. But when it comes to mean stocks and all these things, at that point, that new term stuck like it was there was no there was no term called Bienstock pre January, February 2021. Period. Now he's like, Oh, it's a meme stock or his Gamestop it you know, it's AMC, none of that existed. So I'm like, Look, going forward. I will never let that happen to me again. And I had to learn a lesson that look, Black Swans happen. Anything that happened, the world that we used to trade in 10 years ago, is not the same that it is a few years ago. You know, you can look back any timeframe and it's always rapidly evolving. We know that. So that was a lesson I learned. I'm like, Look, sometimes the math, the probabilities, everything can make sense. And you can still end up being wrong. And that's literally a lesson for life. You can do everything right. You know what, like, you know how they see like there's been people out there that have jumped out of an aeroplane gone skydiving, they've got their parachute. They've even checked the back, backup parachute. They've had 1000s of dives. In experience. It's just maybe the latch is faulty. It's just one thing and you can't control every aspect. This is normal aspect of life. So it was a tough lesson. Not something that I eventually like it wasn't my undoing. I actually bounced back, I came back with a vengeance, I tell people, again, this, and I'm not condoning this, but when I'm angry when I'm like, you know, they don't trade on emotions and whatnot. But for me, I get into this mode where I'm like, I have a vendetta. And again, I'm not condoning this kind of trading, but I have a vendetta, I'm like, I'm gonna make this back. And preferably, I'm gonna make it back trading GameStop. So what I did was I if, for those that don't remember, GameStop continued to be volatile throughout that year, it eventually faded eventually had dropped a loss 80% of its value. But I kept trading it in a sense, knowing what could happen. And my was just convinced, I'm like, I'm gonna make this money back, eventually did make it back in a reasonable frame of time, and then the next day or next week, but I did make it back in a reasonable amount of time. And I'm like, if I can make it back on these beam stocks, that's going to set me at ease. Again, not condoning this not saying you should revenge trade and emotional trade, it was just something for me, I knew with all the years of experience, how I am and how I'm wired and how I operate. That if I execute correctly and properly, you know, you went it's like being it's like, it's like at the casino, right? Your house loses sometimes, but over a large enough sample size to come out ahead. That's called edge, right. So I knew my edge. And yeah, it's funny that here we are now. And I did the same trade. But Andrew and all the listeners and viewers out there, ended up being very profitable. Again, you know, the stock was down today, it was kind of pumped up, and then it just tanked. So I'm good. It's crazy how it came back full circle,

Andrew Stotz 21:47
maybe I'll share my biggest takeaway is the idea that Black Swans are going to happen. And now of course, you are playing with fire, right, you're playing in a very volatile space. And so I think Black Swans can happen, they can happen anywhere and Black Swan meaning an extreme event, you can look at something and say, Oh, if that was to happen, it would be a 10, standard deviation, you know, event, the probability of that is, you know, point 00001. That doesn't mean the event can happen. And it just means that the probability of the event happening is low, but it still can happen. And so the result of that is that we, you know, so the way to handle that from an investing perspective is, you know, the first thing is to make sure you're diversified. So you don't want to be, you know, into something. And that's the only thing you got, because of a black swan event happens there, boom. But just because you invested, you know, diversified across, let's say, particular stocks in the US stock market doesn't mean that we couldn't have a black swan event in the US market. And it, you know, collapses by x in a certain number of days or something like that. So, you know, there's all kinds of things. So just to keep in mind that Black Swans can happen. You want to prepare yourself as much as you can to reduce risk in all other areas. But I would say probably, you know, the fact that you didn't bet your whole portfolio is, you know, part of the evidence that your protection against black swan was to, you know, control your the amount that you're betting on any particular position. So is there anything you would add to that?

Rizwan Memon 23:32
No, you're right. Absolutely. You know, like you said, diversifying is key not only individual stocks, but different sectors, industries, and of course, as you mentioned, geographically as well, right, like you said, just country risk, systemic risk. There's all those kinds of things. But yeah, this was not one of those things. This was just, you know, when I think back so it's wild. But I'm glad you know, I went through unscathed, I know there's some people that must have much to have. I'm not the only person, you know, who thought about this side of the tree there. We know Melvin's,

Andrew Stotz 24:03
a lot of blood on the streets around that.

Rizwan Memon 24:07
Yeah, there was actually funds that went under, you know, massive drawdowns, and there's people that got hurt on both sides, whether it's institutions, whether it's people that tried to bet against it outright. And worst thing was because I've been around I've seen so many people come and go in the trading space. And a lot of people I think the net result of all this meme stock pump was a detriment I think, because a few people of course, they made money. They made a lot of money in a really short amount of time and some people just made a bid. But I think the vast majority of people actually ended up losing money because they believed in this kind of thing and not realizing that you actually have to take gains to realize and you as an individual trader and maybe even 100,000 of you with your you know, $1,000 account or $10,000 account, you can not fight, you cannot fight, ultimately, the market you cannot fight large institutions and the money flow. So a lot of people had to learn this harsh lesson. And once they saw this, I think they lost faith in the market. They're like, Oh, it's rigged, or there's the, you know, you can't do this, or they're taking the buy button away, you know, you can, you know, there's like, 200% of the float is short, like they lost faith in the market. And I saw this transpire, it was like this deep distrust of the system. Right. And it's, for me, as someone who's been around, like I've said, for a long time, who's seen the ups and downs to markets, it was very disheartening, because a lot of people got turned off, and they will never participate in markets, again, maybe the only participation they ever had was because of GameStop. And that was full stop. That's it. So it's sad, it's sad, because I've seen that the financial markets for me, and for many people, I've coached and you know, trained and help, can be a force of good, of course, from a business from capital, like all the, you know, all these companies that we see, but even from an individual way, if done, right, it can be a source of growth, not only on a personal level, but of course, financially. Right. So just like anything, you know, even water if you have too much of it, it can be a bad thing. So

Andrew Stotz 26:23
based on what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn, what's one action that you'd recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Rizwan Memon 26:33
Yeah, I would say, look, like you said, avoid being in trades that may be a bit more complex, or maybe above. I knew the complexity of the trade. It wasn't that but I did see and still see people entering trades. They don't fully know maybe because of a narrative. My thing is, no matter what, yeah, some influencers saying, Be skeptical, do your due diligence. It's easy nowadays to fall prey. And I noticed that a lot of people are waking up to this that like, Okay, what's the person who's seeing this? What's their agenda? Right? Back in 2020 2021. People were like, had more time they're on their phones more they were at home, mostly. So you know, things have changed. But I would say, question, do your due diligence, again, all the basic standard stuff, but don't mess with things that may be a bit outside of your purview. Okay.

Andrew Stotz 27:24
And what's the resource you'd recommend for our listeners? Yeah,

Rizwan Memon 27:28
so for me, you know, again, I don't want to I don't want to do a forceful plug. But you know, I have my website, Reg. international.com. Of course, there's so many resources out there. But for me, I can't vouch for what's out there. I can only vouch for what's mine, obviously, you know, Andrew, your work as well. But for me, my job and I'm very hands on so for me, it's like if someone reaches out to me, even in someone messages me on Instagram, they're surprised that I respond back right away. And they're like, We didn't expect that they asked me this question. And for me, it's a labor of love. So whether it's my social media or website, whatever way it is, you know, if people have questions, they want to know something. I'm always always there to help. Great. So

Andrew Stotz 28:13
last question, what is your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Rizwan Memon 28:19
This of course to beat markets again, this will probably be my this will be my 11th year 11th year beating markets consistently year after year, so I'm hoping to keep that streak going again, knock on wood that's my number one goal in markets always outperform because if I don't have an edge or if I'm not executing on it, yeah, you can have you know, down years you know, low years, but for me, it's beating the market is always that top of mind. So far, so good.

Andrew Stotz 28:49
Great. Well, listeners there you have it another story of laws to keep you winning. Remember, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. As we conclude Rizwan. I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of ACE Dance Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience? No,

Rizwan Memon 29:12
manage risk. Enjoy the process.

Andrew Stotz 29:17
Great advice. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.