BIO: Shil Shanghavi is a public speaking specialist, storyteller, and highly regarded speaker coach. He is redefining the meaning of public speaking by demonstrating its value across all forms of communication.
STORY: Shil’s worst investment was paying for ecstasy for over 15 years. However, this also turned out to be his best investment because he discovered house music while high on drugs. He learned to speak to music to control his stuttering and talk fluently.
LEARNING: Find a way to flip your challenges into your success story. Reach out to people around you when you need help. Write your thoughts down but don’t feel compelled to action them immediately.
“Find your elite, and don’t let it scare you.”
Shil Shanghavi is a public speaking specialist, storyteller, and highly regarded speaker coach. He is redefining the meaning of public speaking by demonstrating its value across all forms of communication.
Shil is the Head of Speaker Coaching for TEDxPerth, a Board member of Guerrilla Establishment, and a presentation mentor with Impact100 WA. He is a pioneer in his field, having introduced the concept of public speaking in virtual reality and artificial intelligence—two groundbreaking approaches which are disrupting the speaking game.
In 2021, an award-winning short film documentary of Shil’s life story was released globally. The documentary is an intimate, behind-the-scenes look at Shil’s story, documenting his public speaking journey.
Worst investment ever
Shil was born with a stutter which got worse as his life progressed. All through school and around other kids, Shil got teased, ridiculed, bullied, ignored, and dismissed because he couldn’t talk properly. That continued when Shil moved to Australia. The horrible treatment made his stuttering even worse. It continued through to university.
In university, Shil was around people older than him studying subjects he’d never come across. And because of that, Shil thought they were more intelligent, educated, and better than him. His stuttering made people distrust him and think of him as incompetent. So Shil was always excluded from assignments, team meetings, and discussions. He never felt like he belonged or had a place in the world.
One day, Shil was invited to a party. During the party, he was standing around a group of people, and one of the guys in this group offered Shil a little blue pill. He didn’t know what it was at first. The whole group turned to look at Shil, and they all urged him to take this pill, and that’s when it struck him that this was some drug. He’d never taken drugs before but wanted to fit in, be liked, and belong. So Shil took the pill. The following eight hours were phenomenal. It was one of the most incredible things he’d ever felt. Everybody was his friend. Nobody laughed at him when he stuttered; they instead laughed with him, which felt really good. From that moment, Shil got hooked on drugs and ecstasy because of that feeling of acceptance.
The drug addiction continued for more than 15 years. This addiction made Shil fall in love with progressive dance and house music. He would sit on his couch, a buddy’s couch, or at a party for hours and hours, immersed in the high while listening to house music. He did it repeatedly, for hours. As Shil was listening to house music, he started speaking to himself. The more he listened to the music, the more he started correlating what he was saying to the rhythm of the house music playing in his head. Shil learned that house music operates at a four-on-the-floor beat. He memorized how house music plays by understanding time signatures. Then he started speaking to the time signatures. This taught him to speak to music to control his stuttering and talk fluently. That’s how a $35 investment in ecstasy ended up being one of the worst and best investments of Shil’s life.
- If you have a challenge, find out how you can flip that challenge and make it your success story.
- Write your thoughts down but don’t feel compelled to action them immediately. Let them sit, embrace the silence, percolate them, and come back when it feels right.
- Take care of your mind and your body. The more you take care of your body, the more it will take care of you.
- Find the style of music you enjoy, and create a peaceful influence out of it.
- Reach out to people around you when you need help.
Find your elite, and don’t let it scare you.
No.1 goal for the next 12 months
Shil’s number one goal for the next 12 months is for his mom and dad to watch him present live.
“Please don’t take what I said as a literal thing. However, if you can take one thing away from this, please do and make sure you action it.”
Andrew Stotz 00:01
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community we know that to win in investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives and that mission has led me to create the become a better investor community where you get access to the tools you need to create, grow and protect your wealth go to my worst investment ever.com right now to claim your spot fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast hosts Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy and I'm here with featured guests. She'll Shan Gavi, she'll Are you ready to join the mission?
Shil Shanghavi 00:46
I'm here, if means yes,
Andrew Stotz 00:49
boom. And that's exactly what we want. We want you here and present. In the moment, I'm going to introduce you to the audience. shill is a public speaking specialist storyteller, and a highly regarded speaker coach, he is redefining the meaning of public speaking by demonstrating its value across all forms of communication. She was the head of speaker coaching for TEDx Perth, board member for guerrilla establishment and a presentation mentor with impact 100. W. A. He is a pioneer in his field, having introduced the concept of public speaking in virtual reality and artificial intelligence, two groundbreaking approaches which are disrupting the speaking game. In 2021, an award winning short film documentary of Shils lifestory was released globally, the documentary is an intimate behind the scenes look at she'll story documenting his public speaking journey, my goodness show, take a minute, and tell us about the unique value that you are bringing to this wonderful world.
Shil Shanghavi 02:00
You said to take a minute, so I am taking a minute. I bring a unique value because I sit in a 3% category of the world's population. And when you sit in a 3% category of the population, you are in elite company. So I consider myself to sit in elite company. And as we have further discussion on this podcast, I'll reveal why i No, not believe I know I sit in a 3% category.
Andrew Stotz 02:39
That's interesting. You know, I have a friend of mine. And he's like in the even like, I would say, point 000 1%. He speaks reads and writes 20 languages. And he can acquire a language in like, three months. And you know, what's interesting about him is that he's never ever gotten to the success that I think he deserves. And I oftentimes tell him that you are in the top. And I'm really fascinated to hear you say this, because I was just talking to a group of young people that want to become financial professionals. And they have impostor syndrome. And I'm like, Well, yeah, you're gonna have impostor syndrome. When you're a young person, you're building your skills, but it's that it's that, you know, frustration of kind of being down at the bottom of the totem pole, or the pyramid or whatever, that challenges you to rise up. And I know all of the stuff I've done to try to study is trying to bring myself up to some kind of level to be able to say that I'm there. And I know, You've intrigued me. Tell me a little bit more about that and kind of what you're doing so that the audience understands, you know, what, what you're all about?
Shil Shanghavi 03:54
Sure. I still have impostor syndrome. And I, I feel it never goes away. In fact, the more successful you become, the bigger your profile grows, the more your reputation grows, it kicks in because you keep stretching your boundaries. And as you stretch your boundary, and you get into a new area, it's uncharted territory. And with that uncharted territory comes impostor syndrome. And the way I manage that is through a, I was recording an online course two years ago, and we listened to a recording of somebody who does well with online courses. And he said, always remember, whatever your skill set is, you will no more than between 60 to 80% of the population. And that's a huge amount of people. As your skill progresses and you develop more and you become more knowledgeable, that turns to 80% and then to 90% So there will always be a population of people who don't know as much as you know. So if you feel impostor syndrome, remind yourself of that, and I continuously do that myself. That's the imposter syndrome part. Your question was about my response to 3%. Yeah. Because you intrigued me. Okay. When I was 10 years old, my parents noticed that there was something not right with my communication ability. I would always everyday come home from school in tears after being beaten up and bullied and teased. And it started to affect me mentally and emotionally. And it permeated through the rest of my life. And over time, my parents realized that what was not right with me is that I couldn't communicate clearly. Because I had a stutter. It developed. We've marked it when I was 10 years old. And it's gotten worse as my life has progressed. And so all through school all through my time in the playground and the classroom around other kids. I've been teased, ridiculed, bullied, ignored, dismissed, because I couldn't say my name. That continued when I moved to Australia. So I was born in Africa. When I moved from Africa to Australia, it continued here. And I got teased and calls for names like retired, stupid, dickhead, all the names, which you can think about that describe a person who is challenged. And I don't mean to offend anybody by saying these names, these are the names that I was called. And that made my stuttering even worse, that continued through to university. And in university, I was around people who were older than me, I was around people studying subjects, which I had never come across. And because of that, I thought there was smarter than me, and better than me and more educated than I was. And because I was stuttering, they didn't trust me. And they thought I was incompetent. So I was always excluded from assignments and team meetings and discussions, because my colleagues thought I was incompetent. So I've been stuttering my entire life. And because of the response, and the reaction I've had from people, it's made me feel as though there's something wrong with me. And I've never felt as though I belong. I've never felt as though I have a place in the world. And then one day, I was invited to a party. And at this party, I remember standing around a group of people. And one of the guys in this group extends his hand. And in the middle of his palm, he had this little blue pill. It had a rough, coarse outer layer with an S etched into it. It was blue, like my jumper is today. And I looked at it. And I didn't know what it was at first. And then the whole group turned to look at me, and they all urged me to take this pill. And that's when it struck me. This is some type of drug. And I've been brought up to say no to drugs. However, I wanted to fit him. I wanted to be liked, I wanted to belong. So I took it. And for the next eight hours, it was phenomenal. It was one of the most incredible things I have ever felt. Everybody was my friend. No matter how much I started, people laughed with me, not at me. And that felt really good. And it felt so good that I didn't care about what was happening to my brain. Now I found out what I had that day was ecstasy. And I learned when you take ecstasy that one pill, cooks your brain, fries, you and it's been described as though you're frying an egg and a pan, it splits and it cooks your brain. And from that moment because of how good it felt, and because of that feeling of acceptance, I got hooked into drugs and in particular into ecstasy. At what age was that? That was? Gosh, that was in my 20s. So this is going back 20 years now. Yep. And it continued for 15 years, more than 15 years I fell into a life of drugs, I fell into the wrong circle, wrong groups did all the things that your race did not do. And that pill cost me I remember it cost me $35. And we're talking about your worst investment here. And so that was an investment for me. And that was a $35 investment I made into buying this pill, which transformed how I see the world. Now, I'm also going to preface it by saying this, I am not encouraging anybody to do what I have done. I am not condoning what I have done. However, I'd like to share what impact it had on me, towards me being the person I am today. What it did to me was, it made me fall in love with house music, progressive dance and house music. And I would sit on my couch, or on my buddy's couch or at a party for hours and hours, close my eyes immersed in the high. And I would really listen to house music. And I did it repeatedly, for hours, hours turned to 10s of hours 10s 1010 10 to hundreds 100 turn to 1000s of hours. And as I was listening to house music, I started speaking to myself. And as the hundreds of hours turned to 1000s of hours, I started correlating what I was saying to the rhythm of the house music I was playing in my head. And I learned that house music operates at what's called a four on the floor beat with sounds like this I met memorize how house music plays by understanding what's called time signatures. And I started speaking to time signatures. And it taught me how to speak to music to control my stuttering, to give me flow and rhythm. And so today while I'm having this chat with you, when I have a phone call, when I'm in a meeting, when I'm on stage, any conversation I have I kick in a house beat in my head. So while we're having this chat now, I'm playing a 2010 track by two DJs called Sasha and John Digweed. From the Winter Music Conference, I can hear the beat in my head. And I speak to the time signatures to the 1234. And that gives me flow and rhythm. And as I was going through did this process, I learned that 3% of the world's population stutters. Now, when I learned that it changed my thinking, because I thought if you live in the 3% of any category, you are in World Class company. Because you think differently, and you're wired differently, and you see the world through a different lens, which to me is understanding how to speak to signatures of house music because 97% of the population, I would argue more than 97% of the population would never have to think about speaking to music to maintain their rhythm. So that is why I sit in the 3% that is why I think I know I belong in elite category. And that is a story about how a $35 investment ended up being one of the worst and best investments of my life.
Andrew Stotz 13:42
Interesting. Let me ask you, how did you how did you get off drugs
Shil Shanghavi 13:50
by promising myself that I would that process was understanding the impact it was having on my mood and my mindset, my weight, my skin, my well being. And I can find it in my family, my best friends. I told them what I was going through. And I told them I wanted out and I asked them for three things one, do not judge me to please support me and three, please keep me accountable. Because if I'm going to set goals to get out of this, I need your support and accountability and don't make me feel judged for this. And getting out has been hard. It's been hard. However, it's taught me that when you focus on one thing and the one thing I concentrated on was being able to speak when you can't say your name and when people laughing You and tease you and judge you for your entire life. You're desperate to want to say your name. And I wanted to be able to say my name. And that was enough of a driving force for me to leave the party life and concentrate on keeping my brain clear.
Andrew Stotz 15:17
And how would you summarize the lessons that you've learned from, you know, this experience?
Shil Shanghavi 15:28
Gosh, liberating, life changing, transformative. Yeah. Again, I don't condone this. And if anybody's listening to this, please don't take ecstasy. You listen to house music, and learn how to speak do not do that. Do the opposite of that. However, I found a way to make it work for me. And I cannot reiterate that enough.
Andrew Stotz 16:03
So maybe I'll share a couple of things, you know, that you made me think of? The first thing is that Well, ladies and gentlemen, we don't have to take the ecstasy, to get the learning that we're learning from you about the power of music and rhythm in the way that we speak. Yeah. And so I think that that is a big, a big thing. And I love the topic of public speaking, I've been doing it all my life, and I'm no pro. But what I learned a long time ago is that public speaking is all about the silence. Most people are not comfortable speaking in public, but really what they're probably not comfortable with is standing up in front of people in silence. And so, so what I found is that in order to bring silence into my speaking, I'm also trying to do, you know, I've never thought about it the way you've described it. But there's a rhythm. And I also often talk, I once gave a speech to about 100 high net worth individuals who were at a lunch speech, they had been in a conference all morning, and then I was the guy that was going to talk to them at lunch. So they're sitting at round tables, so half of them aren't even facing me. And then they're cleaning, clacking and cleaning their, you know, their plates and their, their forks and knives and all that. And it was an it was very difficult, you know, for anybody to get control of this audience. And so, by the end of the presentation, they were in absolute silence. And the get the host asked me when I got off stage, how did you do that? And I said, I did it through irregular pa pauses that some of them could be you know, pretty long, and there may be short.
Andrew Stotz 18:14
yeah, but irregular in the sense that what I realized was that those people were at their table. They were hearing me in the background, kind of like a beat that and other than that, and if I kept that beat, everything's fine. But if I stopped that beat, they're like, Oh, did he forget what he's saying? You know, that type of thing. Jars people. So I try to teach when I teach about speaking is about, you know, it's not so much I didn't, I didn't come at it from the area of rhythm like you have. I came at it from the area of what I call irregular pattern of silence.
Shil Shanghavi 18:51
Fantastic. I talk to many people about how to use music because people are curious about how I've, I've done it. And whatever style of music you like, whether it's house or classical, jazz, hip hop, funk, pop, if you can learn the time signatures, and use the signatures and speak to the signatures, it gives us flow and I call it a peaceful influence. House Music makes me feel calm, makes me feel at peace. And there's a specific type of house music. It's called progressive. Progressive House Music makes me feel calm, which puts me at ease when something puts me at ease. And I can use the rhythm it gives me flow. So I've got more than 150 progressive tracks that I've memorized alongside along with all their signatures and depending on the talk I'm delivering, or a podcast or mine or if I'm emceeing an event if I need to adjust tempo and flow. I kick in different tracks. So for my keynote, I'll start with a particular track. If I noticed a reaction from the audience, and I need to speed things up, I'll flick it over to plump DJs. Scram. If I need to slow things down, I'll go to surrender by Rufus the soul. So I'll flick in between tracks. And I've taught myself how to do that, which involves a rewiring of how we think about speaking. Yeah.
Andrew Stotz 20:31
The other thing that I want to share is my own blue pill. And my mother is one of my big fans. So she'll, she's definitely listening to this. So hi, mom. And I don't think my mom's ever heard this story. But my sister, my older sister, Kelly, had a party one night when my parents were gone. And a bunch of people were over at the house. And in the background, we were living in Delaware at the time. And in the backyard, there was a couple of guys, you know, gathered around. And so I went out there to see what was going on. I was seven at the time. And they asked me if I wanted to have a hit on this bomb. And basically, I said, Yeah, so at 787, at the age of seven, I smoked marijuana. And that led me to by the age of 11, I was getting high pretty much every day there in Delaware. And then we moved to Ohio, and it continued. So it was 10 years, basically, of getting high drinking and whatever, that set off in me. And it wasn't until I ended up getting kind of life forced me into rehab, thanks to my parents, you know, and family. And it took three different rehabs but September 15, this year, I just celebrated 40 years of no drugs or no alcohol so I can feel for you know, I know how hard it is number one for everybody who, you know, for anybody's listening to has somebody that's addicted in some some way or another to something, it's so hard in the beginning, I mean, it does get easier, but it's, you know, it's something that is really tough. And when you overcome it, you also still have to work to make sure that you've created friends and an environment that are supportive to that, you know, and I've got a lot of friends, most of my friends don't, you know, get high or drink or anything like that. And that helps me and then I've got a connection and a network through 12 Step programs and things like that. So that I've got a lot of tools available. So for anybody that's listening, as you know, heard she'll story, you know, think about reaching out to people around you. I mean, I think that's one of my takeaways from what you said is, you ask people don't judge me and, you know, support me in that type of thing. So you're a good example for everybody to reach out if you're facing trouble. And it's not just addiction. Any trouble you're facing? You know, the whole key of this podcast is how do we help people to not make the mistakes that we made. And so one of the key lessons that I would take away from this is reach out when you need help. Anything else you'd add to that? You've summarized in? Yeah, yeah. And actually, there is something I'll add to that. Find your elite.
Shil Shanghavi 23:31
Find, find your Elite is something I talk about. And I'll give an example I during a q&a, one of the ladies in the audience said, I'm shy and introverted, so I don't see an elite part of me. And as we dug into her shy, introverted personality, we realize she's a deep thinker. And she has deep, profound thoughts and visions of the world and the things she wants to do. And when we flesh those out, they were brilliant. They were things which people in the room had never thought of. And we define that as being her elite ability to think of things which other people would miss. So find your elite, if you have a challenge, find out how you can flip that challenge and make it your 3%
Andrew Stotz 24:27
It's fascinating when you're young, you know, society just beats elite, that uniqueness, that difference, any difference is like beaten by young people. And then as you get older, you know, you start to realize that that uniqueness is something special. In fact, I remember meeting with a lady that worked with ADHD type of kids. And she I asked her how did she like it said I really feel sorry for these kids. You know, they just can't concentrate that well, and, you know, all that. And I said, you know, I had ADHD and I still have it, I mean, I'm still would, I was actually given Ritalin drug at, at the age of like six, unbelievable, you know that they would prescribe this to a kid. And but the point that I said to her is, I feel grateful to have it. Because number one, I have hyper focus, that's one of the benefits of it. So I am able to really, really go deep in something. And the second thing I told her is that, you know, I feel sorry for the 99 kids sitting in a class of 100 that can just sit and listen to a boring ass teacher talking about some nonsense stuff, when I want to get up and jump around, and I want to go out and play and I want to go out and experience the world. And I want to, I want to, you know, I want more. And that wants have more has driven me to so many great places in so many great things. So I just told her, you know, I think you got it upside down. Let's look at this difference as a gift, not as a burden. So I think you've given us a good example of you know, how to turn that, you know, burden of stuttering into a gift of understanding the world from a different angle. So yeah, hats off.
Shil Shanghavi 26:36
Thanks. All right.
Andrew Stotz 26:37
Now, let me ask you, based upon what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn, what's one action that you'd recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate, or how to address things when you know, you're young, and you're going through and
Shil Shanghavi 26:54
I come back to my point of fine your elite find it.
Andrew Stotz 27:00
Such a great recommendation.
Shil Shanghavi 27:02
It's more difficult as a kid. Because we were young, or inexperienced, we don't know how to handle things. Or we're less equipped to handle things as we are, the older we get. And of course, some kids are more mature for their age than others are like, I'm doing work with an 11 year old who is not 11. This year, kids is going to be Prime Minister one day, it's quite remarkable. Find your elite. And don't let it scare you. I wish while I was growing, my stutter didn't scare me. I was terrified. Even in my adult years, I've been terrified of it. And the more I spoke about it, the more people grew curious around it. And then I shared all the techniques and strategies that I use to stay fluent. And that made people more fascinated around it. And through the fascination. I realized it created a space where others could also talk about their own challenges that I've had 1000s of people from all over the world contact me around stuttering, deafness, ADHD, being in a wheelchair not being able to see the list goes on or people who have autism, the list goes on around how many conversations I've had. Because I tell them, if you can hear, hear, well, it's elevated your other senses. If you can't see, well, it's elevated your other senses. And so if you feel something is not right, physically, mentally, emotionally, talk to somebody and understand what it's done to your other senses because it will have an impact on your other senses. So I always go back to that point of find your elite. Don't feel that something is wrong. Feel that you have something challenging, and because you have something challenging, you have to work harder to embrace that challenge and work with that challenge which amplifies your other senses.
Andrew Stotz 29:24
Yeah. Great, great advice. It reminds me of Episode 371, which was with a guy named Robert painter, who was a young, vibrant, successful rugby player at Berkeley and was paralyzed in a game. And all of a sudden his life took a very, very major change for the worse as far as physically. But he's been somebody who has turned that into, you know, a really, really powerful motivator and now he can Then in himself that he's going to be able to walk again. And he walks. And yeah, he's amazing. So that's episode 371. And my hat's off to you as well. So what is a resource that you'd recommend for our listeners?
Shil Shanghavi 30:16
A resource I recommend in, in what sense
Andrew Stotz 30:19
in any way related to what we're talking about something that's helped you, I guess, you know, one of the things I've written down is progressive house music.
Shil Shanghavi 30:37
My right, I have a, I have a board, which you can't see the entirety of, you'll see a snippet off the end and on that board, whenever I have a thought, and it's an outrageous thought, I'll write it down. And I'll let it sit there. And some thoughts I've had on there for a year and a half, if I have a look at the oldest one, and I've never felt anything around that thought other than writing that thought down. Whereas there's others where I've developed talks around them or ideas around or, as I've written the thought down, and it's percolated, in my mind, it's given me different perspectives on how I approach conversations, or relationships, or my marriage, the range of things. So one, I'll share three things, one, Write your thoughts down. And don't feel compelled to action them straight away. Let them sit, embrace the silence, percolate them and then come back when it feels right. That's one to take care of your mind and your body. I train six days a week, without fail. I have two cold showers every day. And I also do ice water treatment. It is painful. However, the pain becomes rewarding and satisfying. It's good for the mind. It's good for breathing, it's good for the body. The more you take care of your body, your body will take care of you. And I know it sounds cliche, a cliche, however, eat good food, exercise, move and do ice treatment, because it's fantastic. And three, find the style of music you enjoy, and create a peaceful influence out of it.
Andrew Stotz 32:35
Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, that's great advice. And last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months.
Shil Shanghavi 32:46
My number one goal for the next 12 months is for my mom and dad to watch me present. In my entire career as a professional speaker, I'll add my sister, my dad and my mom have never seen me presenting live. I would love for them to watch a present because after that, if my speaking practice was to collapse, and it didn't exist anymore, I have achieved the pinnacle of what I want to achieve.
Andrew Stotz 33:17
That's fantastic. It's interesting, because I've spoken on a lot of topics on a lot of stages. But I went back to North Carolina to see my mom and dad. And somehow I don't know how but the somebody invited me to speak to a bunch of young people who are in trouble, basically. And, and so I was invited to go and I asked my mom and dad if they'd like to come. And so they came and sat in the back and listened to me talk about my story and all that. And yeah, what a gratifying thing. And you know what a power of example, also for the people in the room, like you can repair the damage done and you can, you know, try to rebuild that. And there I was with my parents having rebuilt that so I'm so happy to
Shil Shanghavi 34:05
hear that. That's something I am I'm unhappy, and I'm jealous, because I would like that feeling
Andrew Stotz 34:12
common for you.
Shil Shanghavi 34:13
It will come
Andrew Stotz 34:14
Yep. Yep. Fantastic. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of laws to keep you winning. If you haven't yet joined the become a better investor community just go to my worst investment ever.com right now to claim your spot. As we conclude Shall I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?
Shil Shanghavi 34:44
My parting words are I will reiterate, please don't take what I said as a literal thing. I'm conscious of that. However, if you can take one thing away from this, please Do and make sure you action. I know people who listen to podcasts and don't do anything around it. If you feel something out of this, do something with it.
Andrew Stotz 35:10
Fantastic. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth. Fellow risk takers let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast hose Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.
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