Ep311: Michael Teoh – Thorough Research Will Help You Outsmart Scammers

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risks but to win big, you've got to reduce it. This episode is sponsored by a Stotz Academy's online course how to start building your wealth investing in the stock market. I wrote this course for those who want to go from feeling frustrated, intimidated or overwhelmed by the stock market to becoming confident and in control of their financial future. Go to my worst investment ever.com slash deals to claim your discount. Now, fellow risk takers This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz. And I'm here with featured guest, Michael to Michael, are you ready to rock?

Michael Teoh 00:48
I am ready whenever you are. And thank you so much, Andrew, for inviting me here.

Andrew Stotz 00:54
Yeah, I'm excited to have you on and already, you know, learning a little bit about you. I'm pretty impressed with what you've done. So let me introduce you to the audience. During the covid 19 lockdown when most corporate training stopped Michael to lead his company thriving talents to pivot from their usual corporate consulting, team building and employee training practices to work with small and medium sized businesses to help their sales teams market and sell better and to boost the performance of work from home staff. Since then, driving talents has helped 150 companies generate five to six figure revenue within the initial three month lockdown period. And that, my friends is very exciting. They have also taught 1000s of remote staff in Malaysia, India, Singapore, Australia and the United States on the topic of mental health and productivity. And that that is valuable. Ladies and gentlemen, I think that's a great topic. So think about that training for your own business. Prior to the covid 19 pandemic, Michael accumulated 16 years of experience working in various capacities. As a management consultant, branding, strategist, outreach campaigns director and serial entrepreneur, Michael has served fortune 500 companies across 41 countries. Michael, take a minute and filling further tidbits about your law.

Michael Teoh 02:23
Thank you so much, Andrew, and to all of you listening to this podcast, and watching our interview right now, salaam Sujata. That's a piece greeting from where I'm from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, nestled in the heart of Southeast Asia, just in between Singapore and Thailand. A little bit tidbit about me is that I'm very grateful. When during one of my productivity trainings that I deliver to leaders around the world, it happened in Malaysia, on one fine day where President Barack Obama actually visited my training, the president came for half an hour. And it left me pleasantly surprised, though I was shocked. And I didn't know what to say for the next one minutes. It was an awkward silence. But then the president gave his signal that I could carry on. And then I carried the session on for the next 30 minutes. And then the president came up, took the stage gave his speech and we had a great time to connect with each other. He gave a very, very kind testimonial to the work that I was doing for the people. Because at the end of the day, Andrew really, I believe, is people like us. Many hardworking people out there who's watching this interview right now who's listening in. We are the ones that make the world goes round. We are the ones that put food on the table. And we are the ones that are really the movers and shakers, many of us, unsung heroes, again, thank you again, Andrew. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted I was so excited to agree to be given this opportunity even to appear on your show again. Thank you, Andrew

Andrew Stotz 04:09
antastic. You know, it's an interesting thing, Michael, that as a financial guy. A lot of times I've spent my and I've spent my years measuring the performance of companies. And you know, what I've come to learn over the years is that financial success has to do with two things. Number one, the leader of the company, if it's a bad leader, and a bad direction that they choose, it's very hard to have strong financial success. True. So number one is the leader. And the number two thing is that what I've learned, in my opinion, you don't need superstars. You need good qualified people, but what you need is coordination amongst the management team. That's right if you have a good leader and coordination amongst the land management team That is the secret sauce. And so for all those people listening out there, if you think you're gonna find it in a financial statement, it's not there. Because remember, as I always teach in my teaching of people in, in management, I always say, and particularly to my finance students, finance adds no value. And what I mean by that is that finance is a mirror, it is a reflection, it is a way it is a feedback mechanism for a management team to judge the impact of their decisions. So, I like people to understand, particularly financial people, I know a lot of financial friends, listen to this podcast, I want financial people to always keep in mind that finance is a supporting function just as much as human resources and others. And if you go into business, only with a focus on finance, you'll never get there. But if you go into business with a focus on management, leadership strategy, and building a team that works together,

Michael Teoh 06:00
it's unstoppable spot on Andrew.

Andrew Stotz 06:03
Yeah. And also, I think, you know, the other thing about AI, I often say to small and medium sized businesses, never fear giant businesses. Yeah, they are so messed up. They can't easily coordinate the activities of their management team and of the different business units, it's a very difficult thing to do. And they've also fallen prey to the idea of KPIs in the sense that everybody has a key performance indicators that they are pushing. And all of a sudden, you have everybody working hard in their own area, but few people thinking about how to coordinate that effort. And that's why the coordination of the management team is what really can set a small and medium sized business apart. That's, you know, and make an impact. Anyways, those are, those are some of my what do you What's your I mean, you've, you've done a lot with large as well as small and medium sized businesses. What are some of the takeaways? Let's just say there's a, there's listeners here to do have small and medium sized businesses, what are some of the things that you've learned over the years?

Michael Teoh 07:13
I believe one of the things Andrew that I've just had the fortune to work with is with fortune 500 companies, as you mentioned, across 41 countries, and I agree with you spot on, when you mentioned that some of these large companies, they have a lot of challenges, when they're not coordinated, or even if the global headquarters issues a directive. But when it comes to a localization part, if they do not work or respect, local partners to work with. It doesn't work. And one thing I find having coached 150 SMEs during this pandemic, because it is during this time where truth be told Andrew, if you were to ask me, is it my first preference to work with SMEs? Truth be told, it's not Reason being because during this pandemic, when in hit Malaysia, we went into a lot now, immediately, all our huge corporate clients decided to freeze training funds, decided to freeze employees development funds. And I realized that as my business was suffering, yet, I didn't want to give up. So what I felt was, hey, if the big boys or the big corporates are not able to pay me, where else can I bring my company? Where else can I pivot? And where else can I add tremendous value? Because I'm a believer, if you want to get paid in whatever you're doing, do not ask first of what you know what people can give you. But instead, ask what you can give people. So I started asking myself, what value can I give. And that was when I realized that a lot of SMEs were struggling, they were shutting down. And then I realized that I coach, I train, I guide, a lot of big corporates on sales marketing, on how to have an entrepreneurial agile thinking. And I'm just going to bring all this formula that I've learned from all these big companies, and I'm going to localize it, personalize it to SMEs. And that was how we help them generate five to six figures revenue during the time when everyone was closing shop, independent MC lockdown that has hit Malaysia, and then people heard about us across the region. And that was how we got invited across Southeast Asia and part of the United States to do trainings, consulting, and even some mentoring virtually. But if you were to ask me, what I really respect from the SMEs that were willing to at least fight during this pandemic, is their willingness, their openness to be agile and to be nimble and to assure their team that things are going to be uncertain. They're going to be uncertain. If decision change at the drop of a hat. You know, they must have the emotional audacity the story Trying to cope with it, and to just have that faith that better things will come. In fact, it's funny that I'm sharing all this with you, Andrew and to all of your listeners out there. In fact, these were my guiding mantras, especially since this show it's about my worst investment ever, right? These were my guiding mantras when I got scammed. A big six figure. And it's funny because I'm this management consultant before. I've worked with the world's largest brands, people would have thought, Man, you are extremely smart, Michael. But then again, I can tell you as much as much as we feel, even we know that we are smart. The scammers out there are getting smarter. And you know, you mentioned something just like you said that coordinated effort coordinated strategy, a coordinated management team makes the difference. You know, that doesn't just apply to SMEs that doesn't just apply to big companies. It applies to all the scammers out there as well. They're getting more coordinated. They work with the media. The media doesn't even know that they're scams. Media just openly promotes them. We have reputable celebrities, industry leaders,

11:19
politicians.

Michael Teoh 11:20
Yeah, promoting them. And I've been that. Well, I

Andrew Stotz 11:26
think that I think we're ready now to lead.

11:31
Like, yeah,

11:33
it's trotted.

Andrew Stotz 11:35
So now it's time to share you worst investment ever. And since no one ever goes into their worst investment thinking will be tell us a bit about the circumstances and tell us the story.

Michael Teoh 11:46
I would like to make a disclaimer before I start this story. Number one, whatever that I'm sharing Here comes from my personal experience. Number two, should any of this content be heard by any parties either directly indirectly related to the subject matter that I'll be sharing about here? I am putting a disclaimer that any events that is mentioned here, it's just by coincidence, it is related to some real life events that have been highly publicized in the media, either locally here in Malaysia or in the region. All right, number three, there are some very powerful figures that were and are still involved in this scam. And that I got scammed off. If, by any mention, if I have eluded you to think of any of their names, again, it is just by coincidence, I am not referencing anyone. So basically I'm saying whatever I'm sharing with you here is just my personal experience. Some people may say it's an old man's tale, if I may say that, and it cannot be used in the court of justice. Andrew is gonna get deep because if I can make such a disclaimer, that means I'm ready for the benefit of your listeners to go deep.

13:13
Go to the

Michael Teoh 13:14
share with you the intricate part of how these scammers actually scam not just me, I mean these people scammed. I think the total amount was close to like 300 million ringgit, so how much is that? 300 million. That's 300 million ringgit, so 1 million ringgit is equivalent to 400,000. US dollars. So how much is that engine? 300 million ringgit in Malaysian ringgit? It's a lot of money. US dollars.

Andrew Stotz 13:43
It's a lot of money. I don't know offhand. But just keep going. And I'll let the audience know.

Michael Teoh 13:48
Yep. So all right, Andrew. So it started off. It was a few years ago, this was way back and Oh, boy. 2012 2013. And during that time, I've just started my business driving talent. At We are very fortunate, where when I first started, we have big clients. You know, we worked with fortune 500, some of the world's largest companies became our clients, even though I was just this young, upstart entrepreneur at that time, and I just had this passion to speak to develop people. And money came rather easily at that time. And of course, I was bathing in the grand jaws bathing in the prestige of having worked with the world's largest, most influential organizations, leaders and brands, and I was making progress in life. And that was when normally when people hear or people see that you're doing well, that's when they start approaching you for investment opportunities. And it was during that time, I got approached to invest. I'll name the commodity. I got approach to invest in crude oil. Because they were saying that, you know, crude oil is a commodity, it is running out in the world. Hence, you know, in the investment term for a layman, an idiot, a no brainer like myself, when the commodity is running thin, it means that the price is going to go up. And if the commodity is used a lot by a lot of parties by a lot of people, and especially, it's a main commodity that is used by all the major industries in the world, obviously, the price is going to jump up. And obviously, you want to be in the game. However, how I will solve this investment? They were saying that, you know, Michael, you could be the trader, you could trade derivatives, you could trade commodities. But do you have the cash? Do you have millions and millions of dollars to do that? Obviously, I told them not yet. And they said good. No, no, don't be a trader, be the one mining be the one drilling the crude oil. And I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, these scammers, they're, they're very smart. So they'll just come to you. And they'll be very authentic. They'll say, Michael, let me be honest with you, right, this investment will not yield you the highest return. If you want to yield the highest return be a trader speculate the market, right? outsmart the market, right trade, the stocks, trade the prices of the derivatives of the commodities. This is not the best investment, but this is a safe investment. So you're gonna mine it all right, you mine it and we're gonna sell this crude oil to the world's

Andrew Stotz 16:35
largest got good advice, you know not to do that, you know, that part of it of trading? Wow. Thank you. So let's go to a mining right. Okay.

Michael Teoh 16:44
So what they were saying is that, you know, you cannot compete with the big oil and gas giants who acquires these crude oil. So you want to be the miner. So when you add a miner, you know, truth be told, you're not going to earn the margins that this big oil and gas company does, but it doesn't matter. Because at the end of the day, all you want to do is you want to mine it and you want to sell it and because they are your Fix customers, so you sell it. So I was like, well, awesome. Sign me up. So what I was buying though, I was buying land. I was buying land? And what? British Virgin Islands? I don't know, in like, Canada? I don't know. Right? So I was like, Okay, why are we buying these land for and they were like, you're buying this land so that we could drill oil inside. So we can extract crude oil out of it? Well, nice. And then they promised me a fair return. And they said that, okay, you're gonna get a promised return of only 12% per year 12%. So it's 1% per month. And I was like, that doesn't really sound fantastic. And then they were like, Michael, again, you know, if we will promising you 12% a month instead of a year. Now, that's a scam. Again, this is you're getting only 1% per month. I'm sorry, Michael. But this is a fixed investment. Alright. 12% per year, 1% per month. So again, if you know any high risk, high return high yield investment, you may go to them. Sure. But again, Michael will come to you with a sincere heart. This is a safest investments it could be. Now what happened was that makes sense to me. Yeah. 1% per month. Well, that actually makes sense. Not bad.

Andrew Stotz 18:27
Yeah, not bad. low interest rate environment. Land is the underlying collateral. Yeah, there's opportunities under that land. I mean, yeah.

Michael Teoh 18:35
So I was like, Okay, let's, let's, let's do it. And then they were very, very upfront as well. They were like, you know, Michael, they were like an agency, right? So they were like, Michael, if we were to drive a Porsche, or a Lamborghini, please do not get jealous. Reason being because we are promising you 12% for an entire year. But as you know, oil prices fluctuates, it goes way up. Sometimes when it goes way up, you may think you have made 30% a year, but too bad. We were just gonna give you 12% the rest of it, we're gonna keep it. All right, because we are guaranteeing you and Michael because if oil prices were to come down, you're still gonna get 12% because we're gonna absorb your losses, right? When the prices goes into a deficit. So I was like, okay, makes sense. So that was when I invested.

Andrew Stotz 19:29
And I didn't read just talking about the investment they gave you can you remember the day that you transferred the money?

Michael Teoh 19:41
I transferred it in trenches. And I remembered I you know, it was the easy calculation, right? And you put in 100 grand, that's 1% a month. So that's like, what $1,000 a month now by Malaysian living standards $1,000 There's not too much money, but it is some money. Sure, to some people, if you're frugal, you could actually retire and be financially free. Right? If you migrate to a less developed state in Malaysia, you can survive quite comfortably you beat a rich guy in the block.

Andrew Stotz 20:19
So you can see your bank you online and transferred it. Yeah. And then, and you remember the type of Where did you transfer you transferred into another company? a company that's like,

20:34
Yeah, Yeah, yep. Yeah, I

Michael Teoh 20:35
transfer it to another company. I mean, it was their company. So yep. You know, nothing suspicious there. Okay. But I think this question really touch a notch on me because I nearly nearly called My grandmother, and my parents. And I nearly asked them to just join and put in their entire savings into it. Because my strategy was, if we could raise a million dollars, that means 1% per month, that would be $10,000. Yeah. And it will be I mean, it will make life comfortable. So

Andrew Stotz 21:24
and you're pretty persuasive guy, I'm sure that if you made that pitch to them, you know, they'd have their questions, and they challenge you. But you know, it's very polite. Well, that's

Michael Teoh 21:33
the funny thing, Andrew, actually, I didn't make the pitch. He didn't challenge me. The only thing is that because my parents and I love them to bits. My grandma loves her. They are not computer savvy. And they were living in their hometown. And there was no one to help them to transfer the funds digitally, you know? And 40 missed

Andrew Stotz 21:55
the opportunity.

Michael Teoh 21:57
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they missed it. And I remember that time I was, I was very disappointed. I wanted to just purchase a flight ticket and just fly back to see my parents, my grandma. And my 88 years old grandma, old, frail, but cheerful. As always, I love her. You're right. I nearly did that. Yeah.

Andrew Stotz 22:19
And after you transfer the money, then what happened? Like, did they pretend as if things were going well, or did they immediately just disappear?

Michael Teoh 22:30
No, here's the best part, Andrew. So what happened is that I've received my 12% per year for like, a year, a good year. Now during that time, they actually, you know, when they made the bank in and they said, Congratulation, Mr. To, is your 1% wow, you know, road to financial freedom. And then they were gathering testimonials from me. And then they were like, they were trying to sell me this dream. They were like, you know, Mr. To have Michael, right. Do you work with the world's largest companies, you know, a lot of their CEOs, they have spare cash. Now you have experienced our extraordinary investment that is absolutely safe. This is not the best investment they admitted. It's not the best investment because it's

23:27
the safest,

Michael Teoh 23:27
right. If, why don't you recommend it to your CEOs? You know, for some reason, I think truth be told Andrew, I wanted to, I wanted to and because not because I want to scam that I didn't know it was a sad? Yeah, I just thought, hey, I want to live in a world where if I'm, if I'm benefiting, I want others to benefit as well, you know, then let's create a happier world together, right? For some reason, I don't know I I just didn't have that chance to be active and to be serious in promoting this to my other inner circle, my CEO friends, right. And I remember it was one and a half years later, and they stopped paying. And that was the point when they said, Oh, don't worry, you know, is there's something wrong with the transaction? And I'm like, okay, you know, because that was that trust for an entire year. Right? sounding like a pyramid scheme. Sounds like a Ponzi scheme, I would say, but I'm gonna go deeper into that later. And then here's the funny thing. So I think it lasted for like the next six months, I gave them a chance for like six months to say, It's okay, I understand, you know, just just pay me up after six months. Thank you so much, you know, and then after six months, they just disappeared. They just disappeared, you know, and here's the funny thing. So, in the one and a half years They were paying me. They were regular meetings. You know, I was invited to go to the offices, very nice, posh office. And you know, Andrew, it's funny because they would show me actual videos of them going to the site in Canada. In the British Virgin Islands, I don't know. And then they were showing how they purchase the equipment, the drills, you know, and, and they were interviewing some chief engineers. Now these chief engineers were not independent people. They were representing actual huge oil and gas companies. I mean, I check them out on LinkedIn. So it's either they're in the plot, you know, or not, you know, so it's like, wow, of course, you're convinced. And the funniest thing was they even have letters from local governments that actually says, Hey, you know, there you go, you know, you have to land you know, you're going to be multi multi millionaire. For soon we're mining crude oil. Right? And it all seems so believable, you know, and then they even open up opportunities for us. They said, Hey, do you want to go to Canada and visit your plot of land? And you're like, wow, okay. And yeah, except you got to pay for your flights. You got to pay everything by yourself, right, but you're gonna go see your land, but I didn't have the chance to do so. But I know that the other people that got scammed just like me up, they actually went to Canada, and they actually saw their plots of land right. Now, to cut a long story short, what happened was, after six months when they stopped paying, that was when you found that things were amiss. And then the group of investors, people who got scammed came together, hired lawyers, went to regulators and talk to them. And that was when we found out that really, you know, all those documentations were forged. They were fakes. Those people who visited actual plot of land in Canada, those were for some other projects with other companies that were had nothing to do with us. You know, it was all just for show. And you know, and it's funny, because so so. So when this group of investors brought these scammers to the court, the scammers, Trulia agents, actually just told us saying that you're not rich, there's no way you could beat us. Because we have the money. We would just keep hiring the best lawyers, or we would have to bribe our way we'll bribe our way through this is Southeast Asia, we would just do that you will never win. If you come together as a huge collective unit. You think you're strong? You're not because you're just strong and numbers, we have the money. Hmm. And then they just say, you know what, it's a good lesson for all of you. Imagine that it's a good lesson for all of you. Why not we just call it a day and just part ways.

Andrew Stotz 28:00
And 300 million ringgit is about

Michael Teoh 28:03
somewhere around that something around and don't quote me on this, I'm just putting in that, again, anything I cite here if it's related to sup in coincidental events

Andrew Stotz 28:12
is just by coincidence, but just for the listener out there. Let's say we're talking about maybe 70 million US something like that. So it's not a small amount.

Michael Teoh 28:21
It's not a small amount. No.

Andrew Stotz 28:24
That's what this sounds. So they basically said, you know, hey, you know, you better not fight us. It's not gonna be worth your time.

Michael Teoh 28:31
You can. Yeah, and here's the best part, Andrew. So I dealt with the Malaysian team. And the funny thing is the Malaysian team got scammed by the global team. So it was like big fish eating the fish, and the fish ate the small fishes, which are this here, right? So, I mean, you know, it's funny because I'm still friends with the Malaysian team because they're really nice people. They're really genuine. And I know some of them really close. And I can tell you Andrew and to the rest of listening, the Malaysian team got scammed. They got scammed. So they got scammed to do the dirty work. So they got scam to supposedly figuratively scam other people. So it's like three layers of scam going on. You know, so it's genius. It's genius. The Wolf of Wall Street all over again.

Andrew Stotz 29:28
So how how would you describe what would be a list of some of the things that you learn from this?

Michael Teoh 29:36
My first suggestion to all of you listening to this right now is that if you have been scammed and if you are still listening to this right now, feeling strong, you know that that attitude of never wanting to give up being resilient has brought you so far. I want to congratulate you if I can. I want to hug you Because you are stronger than you think you have made it so far you have been scammed people have stolen our money away. But you're still here you're listening into Andrew, he's giving a lot of golden nuggets guiding you along this way. Just Just give yourself a break. Just love yourself. And really just appreciate yourself for being so strong. So resilient without you even realizing I know when you first found out that you got scammed, it sucks. But you've made it so far. Could have been a week ago could have been a month ago could have been years ago, but you have made it so far. So the first suggestion or advice I would give to all of you out there is to learn how to love yourself, especially after you have been scammed is not worth it for you to take your own life, for you to enjoy yourself, or YouTube or for you to get involved in any crimes. For you to redeem yourself. It's not worth it. Yep, just give yourself a chance know that all of us human beings, we make mistakes. Yeah, just love yourself. Because it's true love by you loving yourself by you telling yourself that I've learned from this mistake, I move on. I wasn't murdered, I wasn't killed. When I was committing this mistake. I still have breath. Let me carry on with life, wiser and stronger. So that will be the first thing that I'll share. You know, Andrew, normally a lot of people would say, hey, for any type of investment, if it's too good to be true, it's too good to be true. But Andrew, this is interesting, because 12% per year, is it really too good to be true. Like the way they say is 1% per month. Actually, if you think about it, it's actually quite okay. Right. It's, it's quite real. It's quite believable, right? Yeah. So I know that advice that is normally given to a lot of people. If a deal is too good to be true, it is too good to be true. I can't use that advice to all of you here in the context of my experience being scammed. Because it really is a practical deal. But if you were to just Michael, so tell me, what's the second advice, I would say? Well, the funny thing is, even if I were to give you advice that hey, do background checks, check on these people, these people will polished. I mean, I think the one thing that you could do, though, is and here's the funny thing, Andrew, I'm relating back to this point, when they were showing us the government engagement letter from Canada as an example. They even said to us, they said, Hey, if you don't believe us, call this number asked them. And the funny thing is, there were like 300 investors that got scammed in Malaysia. None of us call that number. I mean, can you imagine this if we would have called I mean, it could either be a number that does not exist? Or it could be if it really had led us to a government ministry for this case, Canada. They could have clarified the case. But I would imagine this scammers are very elaborate. They would have had someone else at the other line that says that, hey, I'm from the Canadian Canada. I'm representing the Canadian government. I'm the minister. Hi, you've got my hotline. Yeah, I know. It's 3am Canadian time. But I'm so passionate about this project. And I'm speaking to you again. So I guess that that could have happened, right? So as much as I want to say do your research, but these guys are so polished. So if I were to give you a second advice would be this. If they say they have government authorization, call the government, right? And I know that if you were to call that number that could be a scammer at the other end of the line. Go to a official government website, give the government a call and just say, Hey, I'm just checking. All right. It's funny, 300 investors, we're all smart people, right? I mean, come on. I work with fortune 500 companies, right? We never even bother checking. Yep, you're like, nothing's gonna go wrong. I believe the third and most powerful advice that I would like to give is, no matter how good the investment is, do not involve your family. Do not involve your loved ones. Because at the end of the day, in the Asian culture, we have this touchwood right touchwood so that nothing bad happens, but in the end of the day, touchwood if something bad, does happen, at least you are feeling the brunt of that. of that problem. You're not including anyone else into the problem. Yep. So those would be the three

Andrew Stotz 34:46
advice. Great, great advice. And maybe I'll review some of the things that it brought up for me. You know, one thing I would tell you is I have many guests, some of them that have been involved in scams, but In other cases, they just made really bad mistakes. And one of my guests from Canada, Jerry, Jerry, Jeremy Newsome actually convinced his dad to invest in his idea at a young age, and he lost all of his dad's retirement savings. And I have some other guests that have been through them. So you know, there are some real tragedies that come with losing. And I guess there's a few things that I wrote down. You know, first thing is, what the number one mistake that people make on this podcast that I've analyzed, is they failed to do their own research. And so I think it's worth mentioning here, that what does it mean to do research? Now I've been an analyst my whole career. And basically what it means a big part of it, what it means is that we have to know that the people involved in something are naturally biased. And therefore good research goes to a third party that's unrelated to the people and the people don't know like going, if you're researching a company, and you're thinking about investing in, go talk to one of their customers. Yeah, talk to one of their suppliers, you know, those are the types of things that analysts do. And so I think this is a good lesson that remember, research is not just reading, and digesting, whatever someone gives you. Yes, doing some independent research. Now, the other thing is, speak out. You know, a lot of times these types of scams use shame, embarrassment, as tools as weapons, to take people's money and know that they're not going to say anything. And so I think they're going to use that. And so I think you got to feel comfortable to speak, speak out. Now, another thing that you want to think about is, I always think about, you know, I'm a lover, not a fighter, Michael. And basically, if I ever and I have been in I mean, I don't go out much these days, but when I was younger, I have been in bars and other places where a fight breaks out. Yes. And the first thing I do is I bolt for the door. Because the reality is, is that you don't know what that other person is capable of doing. You know nothing about them. And therefore you don't know they have a gun or a knife. You don't know whether they're mastering some sort of martial arts, and they can just actually kill you right there. And so you just know nothing. And so it's important to think about it too, when you're engaging people in investing that you, you really have to be very careful. And that's something and I think the other thing about it, too, is that scam masters are masters because they've covered all the bases, they know the common things, they know that you're not going to push beyond a certain thing. And therefore they do look very polished. And so you really have to dig a little bit deeper. Now, one of the things that really annoys me about this story is that I recently have been asked about, you know, how do you know if something is a scam? And I said they're promising high return? Now you just droid that because here these guys were so crafty, that they promised they promised a reasonable return. Yes. And now, of course, one thing you could say, Is anything in the financial world that says there's a guarantee. And never never believe that. But you know, in the end, they were smart. And I believe that that's part of the way that many of the scams get you in as they start you on something small. And you know, it's just like pump and dump schemes where they'll tell you don't don't buy any don't buy any stock from me. Yeah, just listen to my recommendations and see what you think. And then one day, they're gonna call you and say, Hey, stock, A, B, and C, I think a lot of my clients are getting into it. I'm not asking you to get into it, but just watch that ticker. And then what they're doing is a pump and dump scheme where they're taking a very liquid stock that's pushing up the price of that stock to a very high level with a small amount of money. And then they're going to call and say to God you didn't get in don't get in now. But then they build the confidence. So they're very, very crafty. And the last thing that I take away in this is a very important thing is it's only money. Yes, yes, yes. And we are going to win and we are going to lose over time. Now losing money is tragedy. And if you're an older person, and some of these people prey on older people, it can be it can be, you know, absolutely destructive to someone's life. That's right. But if you are in your period of time that you can earn it back and get on with it, then you have to just say it's only money. So that's really just on my takeaways. Anything you'd add to

Michael Teoh 39:43
that. Andrew spot on. I think one more other thing that I would add is that the scammers, they're getting a lot smarter. I think they read up a lot of leadership books as well, where people now want authentic, vulnerable leaders. They want people who are real to them. They held them They respect them, they regard them as leaders. And I think that one statement that the scammers told me was that they say, hey, if any of my representative or agents come to you with a Porsche with a Lamborghini with a Maserati, please don't get jealous. We are making money from your money. The only thing is, you will still get your 12%. Guaranteed, but we would have made 30% But hey, you are happy, right? With the 12%. Right? Because at the end of the day, if the market goes down us, you're protected. We will feel the heat. So please don't get jealous. All right. So I was like, okay, that's fair enough. Well, the most honest sincere sales representatives so sincere, it's so authentic. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, they were driving Maseratis and Porsche. Lamborghinis. Bentley's Yeah, without money. They weren't. They weren't making money without money. They were making money from our money. There you go. All right. Last question, what's

Andrew Stotz 40:57
your number one goal for the next 12 months.

Michael Teoh 41:00
My number one goal for the next 12 months would be to expand my business. Because you know, I know this podcast is all about the worst investment. I'm a believer and really is holding faith to it, the best investment we can ever make is to ourselves. And because for me, in my nature of business, it's an extension of myself. So for the next 12 months, it's about expanding how I can help businesses, large corporates, and small to medium enterprises, all around the world. With me providing like yourself, Andrew, you provide finances, coaching guidance, I would like to provide the revenue generating part. So the sales, business marketing, growth of revenue, I would love to do more of those engagement of those trainings across the world, fantastic, built my team, to be world class, in bringing what we have learned from our fortune 500 clients, to SMEs to entrepreneurs, on the streets or offended for this case, virtually online. So that would be my 12 month focus, it's great. And then Aside from that, for my private life, you know, 12 months getting married, you know, that's amazing. You know, I love it a love of my life. She's a banker, best part, you date a banker, and God bless God willing, you marry a banker, they are the most conservative people ever. So I think she's gonna keep my investment decisions. intact. Yeah. So that would be nice. So again, I'm open for collaboration. For those of you listening, just just reach out to me, Michael to sulim on Google or LinkedIn on Facebook. Happy to collaborate with you. And again, thank you, Andrew, for this opportunity. I know it went on a little bit deep. You know, I am very careful with me sharing this story. And again, you can publish this out. I did say, this is just by coincidence, if any of you heard this, I think that was me. Nananana. It's just by coincidence, it could be a made up tall tale, you know, it cannot be used in the court of law. Thank you, everybody. Yep.

Andrew Stotz 43:12
Well, and you know, ladies and gentlemen out there. I mean, I think one of the things that is, you know, one thing that I would say that is great about this show is that about 99% of the people I invite on this show saying no. One guy, there was a great one that said to me, great idea, not the way I ride. In other words, I don't talk about my mistakes. And what you've learned here is the authenticity of Michael and the fact that he has been through his ups and downs. And I believe that people like Michael and others who come on this show are people who are sincere and authentic. So listeners, there you have it, another story of loss to keep you winning. Remember to go to my worst investment ever.com slash deals to claim your discount on my how to start building your wealth, investing in the stock market course. As we conclude, Michael, I want to thank you again for coming on the show. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Michael Teoh 44:23
Well, that's a pleasant surprise. Thank you, Andrew, would love to learn more about that. And I think my parting advice to all of you watching and listening to this right now is number one tune into Andrews program. It's amazing. You know, a lot of people talk about how glammed their lives are, how successful they are. But I think there are many more lessons we could learn from failures. That's number one. And number two, here's the thing. All right. One of my mentors taught me this is that Michael? burning 100 grand is tough. I said, Yes it is. But you've made it back. Many false This shows you the ingenuity of the human will. As long as you're willing. There will always be a path for a better future for you. Thank you again, Andrew. Thank you, everybody. Mikoto from Malaysia from driving talents, signing off.

Andrew Stotz 45:16
Thank you. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and most importantly, protect our wealth. Fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying I'll see you on the upside.