Ep730: Sheryl Garratt – Shove Your Ideas Out There and See What Happens

Andrew Stotz 00:01
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever. Stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to winning investing, you must take risks, but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. And I just want to thank you for joining me today for this mission. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests. Sheryl Garratt. Sheryl, are you ready to join the mission?

Sheryl Garratt 00:36
I am, thank you for asking me. Yes,

Andrew Stotz 00:38
I am. I'm excited to learn a little bit more about you and your own journey and what you're doing. And of course, what you've learned. So let me introduce you to the audience. Cheryl is a coach, helping creative professionals make their best work while also living their best lives. She was a journalist for more than 30 years, the editor of the face and the observer magazines, and has published several books, including Adventures in Wonderland, a history of British nightclubs shall take a minute, and tell us about the unique value that you are bringing to this wonderful world.

Sheryl Garratt 01:16
I think right now it's about legacy. It's about sharing all I've learned by interviewing like hundreds, maybe even 1000s of creatives at the top of their game, and also working with, you know, some of the world's best photographers, writers, designers in my very lucky magazine career. So I've learned a lot. And I think I wanted to spend this last decade or so of work, sharing that and kind of empowering younger creatives to stop them making the same mistakes we all made.

Andrew Stotz 01:47
You know, what's interesting about creatives is that when you see the arc of their output, it seems to be like it's a young thing. Like when I think about musicians, as an example, I think about just the volume of amazing work that they put out. And then it's harder to be, you know, unique or creative, I don't know. But when I also look at, you know, some other careers, whether that's a writer or a coach, like yourself, like you said, you said the last 10 years, the next 10 years, what I was thinking about is how some some careers or some areas, you're actually accumulating so much that you can give back. And I don't know if I can explain it. But there's one other thing I have, like a friend of mine, who's a, who's a really good looking model, and I always try to help him to get his money in order because I said, you know, when you turn 28, it's downhill. There's 24 year olds coming up and 19 year olds that are going to knock you out of position. And you know, you need to, you know, think about what's your next, you know, contribution, but I'm curious how you see that with all the creatives that you've worked with? Yeah, I

Sheryl Garratt 02:54
think that's changing. I mean, the music the genre, you're probably thinking about is Rock and Pop. But you know, you've got Madonna now age 60s, still making music, you've got the Rolling Stones, who must have a collective age of about 300. Now, you know, putting a new album out, so and other genres, you know, sort of folk music, jazz, you can go on forever anyway, but I think that's changing in pop music, and you have people like, you know, one of my favorites from my youth, the Pet Shop Boys, still putting out amazing music, doing interesting tours. So and even modeling now, you know, tell Kate Moss and Naomi Campbell their careers are over. So I think it is all changing, especially cuz my generation, the people born in 1960 61, and a biggest rump going through the population. So things tend to age along with us at the moment. But having said that, I think you know, one of the things about being young in any creative field is, you don't know what you don't know. You know, when I look back at myself in my 20s, I really didn't know how dumb I was, then you get to your late 20s. And you start to realize you don't know as much as you thought you did. But there is that kind of arrogance is the wrong word. But that kind of certainty you have when you're young that you already know everything you need to know you're just blundering about and not really kind of noticing the trail of destruction behind you. And there's something really exciting about that. You know, I think if we're talking about risk, we're really good as humans, assessing risk, you know, the risk of doing something, oh, I could lose my house, or, you know, people might laugh at me, or I can make a fool of myself, all of those things. You think when you're making creative work, I think you get more risk of us as you get older. But what we don't consider so much is how we're gonna feel you know, at the age of 102, looking back over our lives, about the things we didn't do, and that tends to be the deathbed regrets. I wish I'd written that book. I wish I'd sang that song. You know, I wish I tried this thing. I mean, it's never too late to start, I am going to say that, you know, I've coached people in their 60s, even their 70s, who've written a first book who've made the art they wanted to make, and it's never too late to start.

Andrew Stotz 05:18
It's a good point that the tools and the ability for the average person to tap into amazing tools, resources, markets, you know, a lot of that stuff wasn't there 20 years ago, and now the ability to really tap in and, you know, self publish a book as an example.

Sheryl Garratt 05:36
Exactly that I mean, you know, old days, you and I would have had to pitch this to a radio show, there's no way there would be a radio show when the host is in Thailand, and the guest is in London. But the technology is available for us to just do that now. So it's about ideas and action now, far more than it is about pitching to gatekeepers. And the tools are all there to do it fairly easily, plus tutorials on YouTube to tell you how to do it.

Andrew Stotz 06:04
So what's the ideal person that comes to you, you know, for your services, and your coaching? Like, what, what, what situations? Are they in? Are they thinking, are they feeling that makes them say, you're the right person for me?

Sheryl Garratt 06:19
Okay, my clients tend to be much more established in their careers, they tend to be already doing the thing, or have done the thing, and they're either stuck in some way. You know, they're not necessarily the person going, I'd love to write, they're the author who's really stuck on their seventh book, or lost their publishing deal and don't know how to really kickstart their career. It's those kinds of people who come to me. And also success can be really lonely. You know, there are a lot of, we often think that becoming world famous will solve all our problems. But you know, it just amplifies them in lots of ways. So, for some people, I'm a trustee person they can come to, and I'm the person who'll go. You're bullshitting yourself right now, you know, because I've got no kind of skin in the game as their coach, I'm just there to tell them the truth, as I see it. I'm not their manager, I'm not their record label, I'm not their publisher.

Andrew Stotz 07:16
It's interesting, because there was a guy and his band that wrote an album about the isolation that they felt relative to their audience and the lack of connection. And it was called the wall. Yeah, and Roger Waters, you know, a great writer, and Pink Floyd, of course, you know, performing it, but it was about the disconnect. And I think that's something that is really underestimated. I think it's really, really lonely at the top, not, because necessarily, everybody's coming after you. That's one part of it. But the other part is, it just, it's just not always comfortable to share. Because you don't want to be out in the newspapers about you know, whatever it is you got going on in your life. What let me ask you a question about what you do, what is your style or your methodology? Or what is it you know, unique about the way that you engage with your clients?

Sheryl Garratt 08:10
I guess what's unique is I understand their world, you know, I've been on film sets, my husband was a record producer, I know those worlds really, really well. So we can talk in that shorthand straight away. Whereas a lot of coaches really don't know what it's like to be a Hollywood a Lister, or to be struggling with your seventh album, or whatever the issue is. But most coaching is the same thing. Really, you know, it's the same as journalism. I'm very, very nosy. I'm really curious. I like asking questions. I like listening really intently to the answers. And I love hearing people's stories. And as a coach, you're listening for the stories, they're telling themselves, that might not be true. You know, those stories, I'm not good enough, I always do this, everyone's going to laugh at me. Those kinds of stories can be changed. And I think as a coach, it's your job to listen out for them. And then help them see that maybe something else could also be true, and might even be more true.

Andrew Stotz 09:12
You know, I do some coaching with family businesses who are trying to make their businesses more sustainable and more profitable in particular. And, but there was something missing. And I interviewed someone this morning, named Kim Addis and what she does is she has her clients journal. And she even developed the software for coaches using journaling as a tool. And I never thought of that, but I really think that that could be a real breakthrough from my own stuff, because I felt like there's like, you know, there's just, I want to hear what's in their head. And that's kind of what I just heard you Say something about by listening and asking questions, you start to figure out what's in their head. And I'm curious, you know, for most people that see you, and work with you, do they already know what their problem is? And it really is a matter of facing helping them face it and figure out how can I how do I deal with this? Or are they blind to their the problem that that exploit that you end up exposing?

Sheryl Garratt 10:27
Well, they know what their problem is, as in, they'll come to me going, you know, I am really stuck on this book or this album. But what they don't see is the underlying problem, you know, which is a problem about confidence, or taking action or taking risks, or worried about what people think of you, and people pleasing. So they'll come to me with one problem. And in the end, as you know, we'll end up solving another core problem, that's, that's the root of all that, you can go quite deep in a coaching session. And I will say journaling, by the way, is a tool I recommend to all my clients, not necessarily to share with me. But it's a way of hearing your own stories. You know, if you write every morning, everything that's going on in your head, and all your kind of thoughts and insecurities, you learn an awful lot.

Andrew Stotz 11:17
Yeah, it's, it's amazing. I've never been a journaler. And so I've kind of, you know, I'm a note taker. And I take notes throughout the day, and I have all kinds of stuff. So if you had somebody had to look at my journals, it would be, you know, all of the to dues and all of the different notes that I took. But, you know, I just think I'm starting now on two days, a two people in one day, coming to me, it's talking me about the value of journaling, I think there's a signal and for the listeners out there and the viewers, are you journaling? And if you're not journaling, you know, maybe it's worth doing a little bit of journaling. Well, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment, thinking it will be. Tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to and then tell us your story.

Sheryl Garratt 12:05
Well, I think, you know, this was a really good question for me. So thank you for answering it, because I went through all the obvious things, you know, investments, I've made some terrible investments over the years, but I've made some really good ones as well. So you know, and I learned from every bad investment I've ever made, property we've been fairly lucky with. So I went through all the obvious sorts of things that you can make a mistake with training courses, coaches, equipment, you know, I've invested a lot of money and all those things over the years. And sometimes I've invested in the wrong ones. But I learned something every time. And mostly, especially with coaches, I've never regretted the money I've spent and training and causes and learning. Then I looked at time and energy. And that was really revealing. I realized, you know, my perfectionism, which I used to wear as a badge of honor, I think for the first kind of half century of my life, probably, you know, I'm a perfectionist, and I thought that meant, you know, something really special. I realize it's just cost me incredibly dearly. It stopped me from doing things that might have been fun. You know, it's wasted an awful lot of time over the years. And it's got in my way, and I think sometimes you know, that I was horrified when I read that Facebook had, you know, Done is better than perfect on their walls, I thought, you know, have very dare such a big corporation be so sloppy. But I'm now realizing that some you know, all the best things I've ever made. I just jumped in and started, started before I was ready, had a go at it, and then improved it as I went along. You know, the ones I oversaw, I've never done them, you know, I must have had over the years 100 book ideas that I've never written, because I couldn't get them perfect. And I over researched them. You know, there was a point when a really major publisher called me and said, we'd love to offer you quite a lot of money for your next nonfiction book. Would you pitch them ideas? By the time I'd honed all those ideas, that editor had actually moved on, you know, he wasn't even working there anymore. And I've done that with prestigious magazines as well. They've said, like, you know, send us three ideas, we'd love for you to work for us. By the time I've worked those ideas up, they've moved on the editors gone, you know, the magazines change direction. And it's observed, really, especially when I coach people on this that I hadn't, you know, you're so close to your own stuff, you don't really notice it. And I think definitely it's only been the last 10 years, I've got out my own way and started just going well, I'll make it anyway.

Andrew Stotz 14:41
What do you think is a source you know, in your own life or from your own personal experiences? What's the source or the reason why you engaged perfectionism? So, you know, to such a point compared to you know, some people they've never been heard that was never an issue for them.

Sheryl Garratt 15:02
Two things. One is I've always had to force myself to notice details because I'm not a details person. And in a magazine, when you're editing a magazine, you have to be, it's a disaster if the page numbers are missing, you know, if if the third page of an article comes before the second page and things like that, so you have to force yourself to notice and really care about details, and care about the readers experience and that their eyes are being carried through, and that it's all kind of understandable for them on the page. So I guess I've always had to think about that. But to be honest, as well, I've always been far too worried about what people think of me, you know. So I've held myself to very high standards to kind of protect myself from that, you know, if I work 10 times harder than anyone else, then no one can criticize me, I guess is the story I was telling myself doesn't work. By the way, no matter how hard you work, someone will criticize you. You know, no matter how great your work is, someone's gonna hate it, because it's not for them. And I, you know, it's taken me a long while to realize that so okay.

Andrew Stotz 16:09
Yeah, it's interesting, because when I was growing up, I felt pretty inadequate compared to the people I saw around me. And then that started, first, I didn't know how to handle it. And maybe I did kind of negative things, or things that maybe hurt myself, when I just really didn't know how to handle that. But then eventually, I got into studying and I got into working, and I was like, Well, I can prove something here. And so that led me into pushing myself pretty hard to get this education to get this job to do well, to get this to get that. And, you know, as I, as I look, even then I was somewhat aware of what was going on. But as I look back, it was the inadequacy that I was feeling that I thought, Okay, this, when I get that people are gonna look at me with respect, or they're gonna look at me in a different way, or whatever that was, and, um, you know, in some ways it worked. Because if I channeled in the right area, and I went deeper into a particular topic, or subject, or in my case, it was finance, I started to become an expert. And people did want to talk to me about that. And so, in some ways it worked. But I can say, just like you, there was, you know, probably a lot of wasted time, and just, you know, a huge amount of obsession on certain things that I could have let go and, you know, just had a little bit more fun, maybe, or, you know, that type of thing. So let's

Sheryl Garratt 17:42
go ahead, and it's not throwing out any standards at all, you know, my aim now is just to try and get, you know, to say 1%, better over time, rather than trying to be 100% all the time. In fact, I was the kind of person who would say things like, mathematically impossible, like 110%, you know. So it's just not having such high expectations that you can never live up to your own standards. And also, it's disabling, you don't do anything if it has to be perfect, because none of us are perfect first time, you know, you listen to the kind of demos that The Beatles got famously got turned down by every record label for, they weren't that great before they went to Hamburg and practice and practice. That's the truth of it. We all have to start somewhere. And even you know, when you're in your 60s, like me, there are things I'm learning new every day, and I'm going to be terrible at them. And I'm okay with that.

Andrew Stotz 18:40
So let's, let's now, wrap this up by thinking about a young person who's listening or viewing and they are, they're caught up in the perfectionism, they're driven. And the timing is positive and negative effects. What would be one action that you'd recommend that they take to avoid, you know, the negative aspects of getting obsessed with perfectionism.

Sheryl Garratt 19:06
Do it quickly and set restraints, set constraints on whatever you're trying to do. You know, if you're trying to write something, give yourself an hour to write it, and then put it out in some way. You know, blog, it, put it on medium, put it somewhere kind of fairly low risk. And do it again the next week, and the week after that, and the week after that, and you'll get better. But if you just sit there rewriting the same thing again and again, and again, you'll overwork it and kill the life out of it. And the other thing is just to put your ideas out there when you're young because your energy and your enthusiasm is so exciting. But you know, just shove your ideas out there and see what happens. Pitch to people you think are way out of your league, have a go see what happens but also make something of your own and put it out in the world because you've got the tools to do that. Now. It's not just about begging for the gatekeepers, you know go and sing that an open mic night, go and write and stick it online, you know, self publish a book, make your own designs and put them out there, take photos and put them on Instagram, make videos and put them on YouTube, you've got that access now, why not do it and learn on the way, you can always delete the really clunky early ones later.

Andrew Stotz 20:22
Yeah, it's a great, it's a great, great piece of advice. And I think, you know, in business, you, you really want to be iterating, it was the old days where you had to spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars preparing everything and then doing a marketing launch. Now you can tap into the feedback mechanism of the market. So that's, you know, a great, let's say they

Sheryl Garratt 20:44
sold the time to people about their websites, you know, people spend 1000s, on this perfect website. And it's like, you don't know who your audience are yet, you don't really know what you're doing. Just put a really bad four pager out there and see what people click on, see what resonates. And then you can perfect, you know, as you go along. But this idea that we're going to have the perfect all singing all dancing product now is really outdated. People expect you to reiterate and improve.

Andrew Stotz 21:12
Yeah, one of the things I do is I write, I write a lot of research as an analyst and investment research in, I have a community called become a better investor community, and we meet every two weeks online. And then I also do presentations, and I write stuff. And it's like, it's just like practicing new jokes. Yeah, you've got to bring. So I have a new theme that I've been developing that is that the US is in five wars. And I go through these five wars that they're in. And then I tried to explain that this is why the US must defend the dollar, the reason why the US must continue to borrow to fight these wars, including, let's say, a war with the climate, the trillions of dollars that are necessary to do that war. And so last night, I brought that material out for the first time to my community, and then ask them, you know, what do you think, what do you what do you what are your thoughts about it, and my communities all around the world, so they can give some, you know, different feedback. And then on Sunday, I'm going to do a coffee presentation. And it's going to be on video and my coffee at my coffee business, actually, I have in Thailand, and then I'm going to turn off the video and whoever's in the room, then I'm going to say, Okay, I'm gonna go through some of my new stuff. And it's going to be the next iteration of that. And then next week, I'm gonna be presenting that to the best fund managers we have in Thailand. So it's just that iteration process, I think your advice is really, really good.

Sheryl Garratt 22:45
Absolutely. And your audience grows with you. I'm sure that people who see it first, the kind of clumsy version really enjoy seeing that and enjoy watching it grow and improve. The same as you know, if you're a band, the people who went to your early gigs really feel like they have ownership of you, by the time you've gotten the stadiums, and they've grown with you, they forgive the mistakes. In fact, they remember the mistakes really fondly, because they were there to witness them. And I think that's the thing we can grow with our audiences. Yeah. Remember when it first came out authenticity of you messing up and just going like, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Oh, fluff my line there. I should got this bit I need to add it in. People don't mind that any more. They prefer interacting with a human rather than someone who's super slick and polished, or certainly my people do.

Andrew Stotz 23:31
Yeah. Isn't it fun when you go back and listen to some old old old version of a particular song by a band that you like, and you realize, like, they, they, they develop the lyrics, the lyrics were different there. And then they developed into a more, you know, a more smoother lyric, let's say at that time, you know, as it went by, and that's what you just see that development process and to be a follower of abandoned find, like that one song where they, you know, yeah, or the, you know, you mentioned the Beatles, and they've been putting out so many little short clips of them in the studio, and they were, I forgotten the song that that it was, but in one of their many beautiful songs, and, you know, the, the, the final word was, you know, some very nice wording, but John Lennon was saying, just say any word, just say any word like pomegranate. And so yeah, that's the creative process. Alright, so let's talk about, I always ask my guests if they have a resource that they'd recommend, and I know, you've got something interesting. So maybe you can talk about that.

Sheryl Garratt 24:35
Yeah, I have a free 10 day course just giving you the outline of how to set up a creative business and how to grow a creative business. And it's relevant if you're just starting out, but it's also relevant if you're more established to just go over and give your business a health check. I think a lot of creatives for instance, don't think about marketing enough, and about just reaching out and connecting with their audience. So That's available via my website. And you can sign up for that. And it's just 10 emails, 10 days. And if anyone has questions they want to ask me, they're really welcome to email me, you know, just, there's a form on my site, or just email me at Cheryl at the creative life.net.

Andrew Stotz 25:20
Perfect. And I have links to all that in the show notes, including the link to that course. So appreciate that. My last question for you is, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Sheryl Garratt 25:33
Finish the book, I've been running my perfectionist streak on a little bit too much. So I've given myself constraints, I am going to have it finished by 31st of December this year. And Ready or not, it's going to be published next March. It's called making it 10 steps to growing your creative business. And you can hold me to that

Andrew Stotz 25:55
exciting Well, I look forward to it. So that let make sure that you send me the link to once you get it out. And I'm going to put it up on the show notes too at that time. So thanks for having me. Yeah, listeners. Yeah, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. Remember, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. As we conclude, Cheryl, I want to thank you again for joining the mission. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Sheryl Garratt 26:30
Just do it. That's what I have to say.

Andrew Stotz 26:34
Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect. And for the audience, if you go back and listen to my episodes, one to 50 You'll hear a very different person speaking, I just did it. I followed that exact thing that Cheryl was saying. So that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast hose Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.