Ep723: Ryan Dusick – Invest Yourself in Something That’s Meaningful

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win an investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives to join me go to my worst investment ever.com fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest, Ryan Dusick. Ryan, are you ready to join the mission?

Ryan Dusick 00:35
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Yeah,

Andrew Stotz 00:38
I'm very excited to talk to you and hear your story. And let me introduce you to the audience. Ryan is an associate Marriage and Family Therapist, life coach and mental health advocate, as well as the founding drummer of the world's most popular band, Maroon Five. He's also a columnist for Variety magazine, and the author of the new book, harder to breathe a memoir of making Maroon Five, losing it all, and finding recovery. His life has been a long and winding road from aspiring Popstar, with anxiety, to heartbroken alcoholic, to thriving mental health survivor and messenger of hope in recovery. Goodness gracious Ryan, take a minute and tell us about the unique value you're bringing to this wonderful world.

Ryan Dusick 01:27
The unique value that I am bringing to this world at this point in my life is my life experience up until this point, you know, I feel like I've lived like four different lifetimes at this point, my childhood up until a certain age, the years that I invested into the band that was that became Maroon Five. And when I say invested, I mean, you know, time, sweat, energy, passion, purpose, inspiration, you know, everything that goes into building something like that for over a decade, and then a decade that was lost to addiction, really, and had some mental health issues, anxiety and depression and otherwise. And then this whole new path that I'm on now, which has been so fulfilling, where I'm giving back of everything that I've learned in my journey, as a therapist, and as an advocate, and as an author and writer. And so, you know, I think the gift that I bring most is the experience of all of those parts of my journey, the lessons I've learned, and the ways in which they inform the things that I'm doing now in being of service to others.

Andrew Stotz 02:36
Yeah, I guess when I think about my own journey of kind of destruction, and then recovery, I think and I think about you, I think, you know, it could be that your highs, your highs were higher than mine. Hopefully, that could also mean that your lows were lower, you know, and, but one of the questions I had is it, you know, what's interesting, I have a My best friend is a drummer, and he is also recovering alcoholic in his case. And basically, you could see that any musician has got to have an obsession in their instrument, and in trying to learn and trying to master something. And so I saw in him ever since he was young, because we known each other for a long time, you know, an absolute obsession to figure something out, you know, figure out how to use his hands and his feets in a different way. And then that obsession went into alcohol and drugs. And then of course, once that's gone, you know, the alcohol and drugs are gone. Is the obsession gone, man? Maybe not. You know, we're kind of the same people, but we're trying to cope with our behaviors, but I'm just curious, like, how was your youth? Like, as far as that? You know, what was it like before you really hit the alcohol? And then what happened? And then what happened afterwards, in relation to that?

Ryan Dusick 04:03
Well, I was actually relatively late to the game in terms of drinking and all that stuff. I was a good kid, you know, I was the responsible one. I never really got in trouble. I always did what my parents expected of me. And in that regard, I was high achieving. I was, you know, I was more or less the model student and the golden child, I guess is my parents eyes. At least that's what they told me. And, and, you know, I had several different passions. Before I ended up with the addiction and you know, the first one biggest one as a child was probably baseball. I thought I was gonna be a pitcher for the Dodgers someday. And that was a very meaningful thing for me at age 12. Where I did that was my whole life. I had other passions at that age. I enjoyed writing and like I said, I was an academic kid. But as a teen Yager music became my passion, it became everything to me. Because I was one of those kids that as a teenager, I went through, I guess what you'd call a teenage angst. It was kind of a brooding kid, I didn't know exactly where my place was in the world. And all these mixed up feelings, I found both an escape and a source of connection in the music that I loved. And then in the music that I began to make, as an artist, myself and in the group that I started. And so that was a big source of purpose, and fulfillment, and just providing some meaning in my life, and a feeling of connection that was lacking elsewhere. And so that was the passion that drove me forward. And everything that I did in my life at that time was sort of motivated by that passion. You know, I mean, I suppose passion for some of my romantic relationships as well would be another side project from the music. But that was really, really, I mean, the music and the band became a big part of my identity. Because of so much of my myself and my self definition, my self worth, and my inspiration and motivation for living was wrapped up in that. So that's why, when that wasn't there anymore, there was a huge void to fill. And, and I would say that, you know, drinking and the other ways in which I struggled for a while, really was, you know, a way to try to fill that void.

Andrew Stotz 06:30
And one question is, like, when did alcohol really start to, you know, enter your life number one? And number two, can you explain the reasons why you left the band?

Ryan Dusick 06:42
Yeah, well, alcohol, like I said, I was kind of late to the game, I didn't drink much as a teenager, when, when most kids were starting to experiment. Even in the first part of college, I was kind of a straight edge kid, I wasn't, I wasn't really going to the parties and doing all that. It was in my, I guess, early to mid 20s, when I was finishing college, and the band was starting to get pretty serious, that alcohol just kind of became a way to facilitate a good time, it was very innocent. At that time, it was just really a way to enhance the good times, you know, to go out and to, to be more social, and I was kind of a shy kid and introverted and, and had some social anxiety. And I felt at that time that, you know, alcohol made me the best version of myself, you know, I was able to be more present more connected to the people around me and, and I was more clever and witty and fun and able to let loose. And so I didn't really see any downside to it at that point in my life. And then I took that attitude on the road with us when we went, you know, we made the album Songs About Jane. And it came out in 2002, when I was about 2425. And we spent the next three, four years of our life promoting that record, which was very exciting and fulfilling in a lot of ways. But it was also exhausting, and really broke me down over time. being somebody who put a lot of pressure on myself, I experienced a lot of performance, anxiety, impostor syndrome, you know, is the perfectionism meeting up with the demands and the pressures of that lifestyle, and there just wasn't a whole lot of downtime, there wasn't a lot of time to recuperate. So just running on adrenaline for weeks and months, and then years. And at a certain point, you know, the alcohol started to creep up a little bit. I don't remember being a heavy drinker to the point where I was like, drunk or hungover on stage when I was performing. But I started having physical problems performing first, shoulder pain, joint pain, and then it became nerve problems, coordination issues. And then at a certain point, I just had to stop playing and was trying to recover from that trying to come back. And it just wasn't working. And that's when the alcohol started to really start to creep up because I was now for the first time instead of drinking to, or to facilitate good times to go out and make a good time. Even better, I was now drinking to self medicate or to escape negative feelings, painful feelings, physical, emotional, psychological, spiritual pain, right? So in that time, it was becoming more of a, you know, what you would call, I guess, excessive or abusive, drinking, or using and then, and then when I left the band, which was, you know, essentially, I was just not able to play the drums anymore. The way that I used to I was having a lot of physical issues. And it just didn't make any sense anymore for me to be able to be the drummer in the band to make another album and started a whole other album cycle. And the band was just very concerned about my ability to do it. So, you know, reality kind of slapped me in the face at that point, and I had to deal with the loss of that identity that I had wrapped up in the band and everything that that was my life at that point for the previous decade or so. So now there was a huge void. And that's when I had really nothing standing in the way of alcohol filling that void completely for a while.

Andrew Stotz 10:17
Can you remember that day that the decision was made? either yourself or with the band? other band members? Or what was your feeling on that day?

Ryan Dusick 10:27
Yeah, well, actually, it was an important enough day in my life that I made the prologue to my book harder to breathe. Because I looked at it kind of like, this is the scene of the crime. You know, when you're, if you're telling like a murder mystery, it's like, you go straight to the scene of the crime, and you're trying to figure out how did it get to that? You know, and then where did it go from there. So I made it the first chapter, because I wanted it to be like, Okay, this is how bad things got. And this is the moment when my life changed forever. And then I go back to the beginning of my life, and I lead up to that point, which comes about two thirds into the book. So it was, you know, I think it for the year or so, prior to that, I was in a state of denial to a certain extent, I knew that I inside I was really feeling broken and feeling defeated. And my body was not cooperating with me and my, my mental health was deteriorating. But I think I, at least on a, on a surface level, there was a facade of sort of feeling like I could, I could, I could, you know, maintain the charade on the, on the surface, I looked like I was still a rockstar, having a great time and just partying with the boys. But in that moment, on that day was when that sort of denial or rationalization kind of all went out the window, because the band finally addressed the elephant in the room, we all knew it was happening, we all knew it was kind of getting to this moment, but it was the moment in which I couldn't really, I couldn't pretend anymore. So it was, you know, it was a lot of anxiety, it was God, it was just a flood of emotions, you know, I was angry, you know, and not even really knowing who I was angry, I was angry at the band, I was angry at God, I was angry at the universe. But really, I was mostly angry at myself, because I felt like I had done this to myself, and that I was a failure. And there was something wrong with me. And so, you know, very complicated emotions. And it was, it was heartbreaking, more than anything, you know, it was like, having everything that you'd worked for for over a decade and everything that was, you know, defining of myself. And my self worth, and my identity just kind of pulled out from under me in an instant, even though I knew it was kind of, I kind of knew what's coming.

Andrew Stotz 12:48
And, you know, I want to talk about what you're doing. Now, before we get into the story. And, but before we do, I'm just going to briefly tell my little bit of my story, which was that I got addicted to drugs and alcohol at a young age. And when I was 1617, my parents put me into a treatment center in Minnesota. And within four days of getting out of there, I was getting high again, and then I decided I'm gonna run away and you know, live my own life. I was 17. And I ended up actually living in a little chicken coop behind a friend of mines house until eventually the cops found me because my parents said, No, you're not. And they, you know, called the cops. And eventually they got me back. And what they did is sent me to another treatment center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And, and so I went there. And then eventually, I went to another Treatment Center in Cleveland, outside of Cleveland, Ohio, which is a long term treatment center for seven months. But one of the things that catches me about what you're talking about marriage and family therapists, is that one of the things I really appreciate what those treatment centers did, is they had family weeks, and particularly in the first to the long term one, it was like every week is family week, because my family would come up. But basically, they pushed me to address every issue from my past. And I now it was bloody painful for my mom and dad, for me for my sister's for everybody. It was painful. And but it opened me up to a new life, a life without constraints a life without, you know, I'd cleared away the wreckage of my past. So my question to you is, what is your message to people that come to you, you know, for your help about you know, marriage, family, life coach mental health? What how would you clarify your message to them and just say, some people listening to this will never be able to come to you for X number of reasons. But they want to get your message. What would it be?

Ryan Dusick 14:55
Well, I don't know if I have one message for all of my clients, but I think that you know what I've learned What I tried to impart is that, you know, the only way through something painful is through it, right? There's no way around it, there's no way I mean, you can avoid it for a certain amount of time or, you know, push it down, escape it, push it out of your mind, but it comes back that much stronger, or in other ways that you hadn't anticipated. And so, you know, as difficult and as painful as it can be to sit with, with the, with the painful emotions, or, you know, processing the things that were traumatic from our past. It's that much more difficult to go through life, not dealing with those things, because they manifest in all the ways that end up being the most destructive to our lives. And in families. That is it, you know, that's the case, as much or more than it is in the individual, because, you know, no man is an island, we learned in school to become an MFT. And that's, that's just the license, by the way, the MFT necessarily have to work with, with families to have that title, but it forms everything you do, because we see the individual as part of a system, right? We're a product of where we come from, we're a product of the systems that were connected to both in our past and our present. And so it's so relevant, the relationships that we've had in our life, and how they inform the relationships we have today. And the ways in which we cope or don't cope with the things that have been painful in the past and, and in the present. So it's in, in working through these things, it's in addressing them head on, and finding new tools, when sometimes the old tools were not so healthy. You know, and finding ways to kind of get to the other side of that difficult thing. And oftentimes, it's not as scary or as painful as you imagined it to be. In all those years, when you're, you know, running from it, or avoiding it. So that's the process that's really rewarding for me, and hopefully, for my clients.

Andrew Stotz 17:06
Yeah, so I love that, that the only real way of getting through something is to get through it, you've got to, and I know, for all of us, we put off dealing with things because it's painful, it's scary, it's overwhelming. But I think there's a quote by a quote by Mark Twain saying that I had many terrible things, you know, in my life, and some of them happened. You know, like how much is in our head as to how painful and difficult this is when in fact, a lot of times from a therapy perspective, it's just kind of identifying what the core issue is, and then cutting through it, and getting down to the meat of it. In fact, I have a product and a service that I sell here in Thailand called profit bootcamp where I help mid sized family businesses double their profits in 12 months. And people always say, how can you do it? And it's like, because families don't talk. And it's not, I'm not doing family therapy, for sure. But what I am doing is saying, no issue can be left unresolved. When I am here, my goal is to resolve these issues so that we can move beyond them. And once you do that, is there. So I think that's a great message that you're providing to everybody. And I thought that was fantastic. Thank you. Yep. So for everybody out there, you've got some demon in your mind. And I'm going to I'm gonna think about your discussion about how here you are super successful rock star, pop star, famous, you know, successful in what you're doing when you're up there playing and yet you felt impostor syndrome. And so what I want to say and I think that also I look at Robin Williams is another one that I think, you know, funniest man made us all happy, amazing. And yet, he felt so bad inside that he ended up taking his life. And that helps us all to remember that we are all struggling in one way or another. And chances are you're struggling with one or two demons that are coming after you. And after listening to this, I challenge everybody to make your first step to turn around and face your demons. Now, it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking will be tell us about the circumstances leading up to it then tell us your story.

Ryan Dusick 19:36
Well, I guess I would have to say that the worst investment I've ever made in my life was investing a decade of my time and energy and focus into an illusion. The illusion is that I have control over something I Uh, that essentially, I don't have any control over, right? Playing God, so to speak with my own mind and with the reality of my existence, and doing exactly what we were talking about in terms of avoiding the very thing that I needed to be dealing with. And, you know, there were moments in that decade that were pleasant and enjoyable and fun and their own ways. Certainly, you know, getting drunk and avoiding your problems can have their moments of levity and pleasure, I'm not going to say that it was all bad. But I will say that I look at, you know, the entirety of my life now at 45. And I think all of the best moments of my life, all the things that actually enriched me and felt powerfully meaningful and fulfilling, came in moments when I was fully present. Right, I remember the moments that are most meaningful to me. Because I wasn't running from anything. And even if there were things in my life that were not, you know, as good as I'd want them to be, or unpleasant in other ways. I think that maintaining that lie in my head that I was that I had control over things that I didn't, that I could escape the feelings that were so painful, was an exercise in futility. Right? And it gets worse over time, because you're avoiding something and you're running from something. And what you're doing is you're, you know, your coping skills are deteriorating while you're doing that. And the thing that has been, that was painful, is getting bigger, that monster is growing stronger. And all you're doing is kind of just pushing it away, and it just keeps coming back stronger. And so, you know, I was investing myself in something that was essentially harming me, and not benefiting me in any real way, other than maybe a moment of pleasure from time to time. So, so yeah, that was that's, I mean, I try not to look back with regrets, of course, even that time in my life has provided me with so much meaning in retrospect, because of everything I learned and everything that I'm able to share. So in some ways, my worst investment in myself, has also been one of my best investments in that. As I said, at the start, you know, my life experience is, is what I cherish most in terms of when I speak, when I write, when I talk to my clients, my ability to connect with people, not just in the, in the good things that I've experienced, but in the tragic and painful things that I've experienced, it all informs who I am and informs what I do. So it's kind of the same answer for both, you know, obviously, if I were, if I could do it again, I would invest that decade of my life very differently. Now. As you know, the way that I'm living now is proof of that. But at the same time, if I were to go back and do it, you know, do it again, differently, would I be where I am today? tough question to answer.

Andrew Stotz 23:07
Yeah. And of course, we don't live life in reverse. Right. So there we are, we're stuck with what we've done. And let's, how would you summarize the lessons that you learned from that period?

Ryan Dusick 23:23
Well, you know, I think that what I learned, most important lessons are that the things that make you truly happy in life. And I use that word happy loosely, because I believe happy is just an emotion. We were searching for happiness, a lot of the times when what really what we want is just contentment, or fulfillment, feeling that our life has value, moments of happiness and joy come amidst that contentment. You have access to those moments, if you are in a place where you have fulfillment and meaning in your life. But to use the phrase, you know, happiness in life, it comes from feeling connection and purpose. Feeling that you're investing yourself in something that's meaningful to you think for a long time, because it was so painful, losing what felt like my identity. Something that I felt was at the very core of me, I was kind of waiting around for something to come along and bonk me on the head, the universe telling me here's your new purpose, or here's another purpose, here's something else to replace that old purpose with. But really feeling like that was not never going to happen because I had my one chance that that really great life and that feeling of fulfillment and I lost it. And so all I was really able to do was just sort of try to pass the rest of what was sure to be sort of a disappointing letdown of a life with moments of fleeting pleasure. But what I learned when I got that all out of the way And and started to invest myself in new things that I was passionate about is that meaning and purpose is not something that's necessarily handed to you by God or the universe. If you believe in those things, then perhaps that's meaningful to you. But it's something that you can create for yourself in the way that you choose to, to use your mind your mindset, to look towards ways in which you can grow and find new connection, new purpose. And so that was really enlightening for me. And I found it pretty early on in recovery, because it was the feeling of service that drove that for me, feeling that I had something to offer another human being and a helpful way. And I lightbulb just kind of came on. And I said here, I have been sort of running away from any sense of responsibility or connection to anything and in life, and realizing that's the one thing that would actually make me begin to enjoy my life again. And so it's that it's, it's investing yourself in something that's meaningful to you creates purpose. That connection, that feeling of connection, whether it be to a career to a, to a family, to a hobby to a passion, whatever it is, it doesn't matter as long as it feels purposeful and connecting spiritually connecting. That's what's going to provide that greater feeling of contentment in your life.

Andrew Stotz 26:26
And another question is that, you know, I mean, obviously, everybody's got to go through their hardships, and it's from those hardships that we learn. But the point of this podcast is to help people reduce risk. And if somebody could avoid those hardships by listening to these conversations, why not? Let's try to avoid those, you know, let's try to avoid crashing the car or whatever, you know. So my question to you is, based on what you learned from your story, and what you continue to learn, what's one action that you'd recommend that our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Ryan Dusick 27:06
Well, you can't avoid risk completely in your life, I believe that there's a certain amount of risk inherent in anything worth doing. That's my mindset. Now, I'm even speaking just in terms of, you know, literal investment, financial investment, if anything, by nature, avoided risk for a long time, and probably to my own hindrance. Because I was conservative to a fault and realizing that, you know, if you want to achieve certain things in your life, to a certain extent, you have to put yourself out there and be prepared that there may be setbacks, there may be disappointments, there may be failures. And that's part of the process, ultimately, to getting to where you want to be. And that setbacks, disappointments and failures don't make you a failure, or don't ultimately mean it's the end of the road, it's part of a process of pursuing something that is ultimately, of value to you. Right. So, so I think that, you know, it's not about avoiding risk for me, it's about assessing risk, and looking at the risks that are worth it. You know, if I, if I wanted to be an NBA star as a as a 10 year old, and I was, you know, very aware that I had to invest those 10,000 hours of hard work to get there. Good chance, is that I'm going to have to make some sacrifices along the way, and I'm probably going to, you know, fall on my ass a few times and, and get a feel like, you know, all of this hard work is not paying off, right? That doesn't mean I'm not going to do it, it doesn't mean I'm not worth it. Even if you if I didn't ultimately get to the NBA, there are rewards that would come from that journey that you might not even have foreseen. So, for me, you know, I think that the change for me has been recognizing that the failures, sometimes when you do lose, the risks you take, and the failures you have, can be part of, of a mindset of growth. It can be part of seeing those things not just as threats to my existence or my sense of self. But as challenges to overcome and to learn from and even in the failures to see new ways in which you know, next time around, I can be that much better, and I can achieve the things that ultimately are going to make me happiest.

Andrew Stotz 29:31
And for the listeners out there, I'm gonna have links in the show notes for your book, harder to breathe a memoir of making Maroon Five, losing it all and finding recovery. So let me ask you besides the book, which obviously is a great resource that you've created, what is your other resource that you'd recommend for our listeners?

Ryan Dusick 29:54
Well, one of the things that I find really helpful for my record Marie, and I recommend to a lot of my clients is the practice of mindfulness. Mindfulness is essentially different than a lot of other forms of meditation. In that it's not just a meditation, it's a, it's a, it's a mindset, it's a philosophy, it's a way of living, that is centered on acceptance. In the same way that recovery from addiction is centered on acceptance, that's step one, right? I think that's part of the reason why mindfulness spoke to me, because it's actually a philosophy. It's an Eastern philosophy based meditation that is very much based in accept radical acceptance of the present moment, right for whatever it is all of the things that might be painful, all of the things that might be challenging, but also all of the things in which we might be building up in our mind as more than they are. And it's, the reality is that not that much is actually really happening right now. There's no, there's no monster in the room that's going to kill me, it's my own mind, or my own fears that are informing some of the anxieties or the reasons why I'm not able to act on things or move forward with grace in my life. So it's a way to calm the self. But it's also a mindset that allows you it's kind of a paradox, because it's, it's the art of being right as opposed to doing learning how to be and how to be an acceptance of the present moment without having to change it in any way or to place judgment or criticism on it. And so it's the opposite of doing in that regard. But the irony is that, in learning how to be you actually become more effective at doing, because a lot of times the things that block us from, from doing things that we want to do are the fears and the anxieties or the things we project onto that thing that are not reality, it's just our mind kind of spinning out. So being fully present, gets us out of the, you know, the things from the past that we're carrying with us, or the anxieties about the future that are blocking us, and allows us to just be present with what we're engaged in in this moment, which is all you really need to do to get where you're going. Right, you can have goals, and you're going to have a long term plan. But you can't do all of that. Now, all you can do is what you can do right in this moment. Right. So if you have a five year plan, there's one thing that you're doing right now in this moment, and that's all you really need to focus on.

Andrew Stotz 32:18
So for those people that want to learn more about mindfulness, just come on over to Thailand, and we have some great mindfulness retreats here, as well as in India. And I know now there's also plenty of them in the US. Those are some great options. And there's some great books on it. I know. Eckhart Tolle is one of the ones that I've enjoyed practicing the power of now as an example. But I think I'm a little bit behind where you're at with it. But I know that when the demons come up in my head, and it's three in the morning, and I've woken up and they're chasing me down, I always turn on the practicing the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, and just listen to it. And what he tells me in that book is focus on this immediate moment. And at this immediate moment, there is no danger, there is no threat. And that just absolutely calms me. So I love the tip.

Ryan Dusick 33:19
Yeah, my inspiration or my sort of relationship with mindfulness. You know, at first, it was difficult, I'll tell you because I was in, I was in rehab at the Betty Ford Center, I had heard the term mindfulness. And it just I think it was a name that was a turnoff to me right off the bat, because I've always been an over thinker. And the term mindfulness without knowing a lot about it always sounded like, oh, you need to be more mindful, you need to use your mind more. And I was like, no, no, if anything, I need to learn how to use my mind less, because I just, I overthink everything my mind gets in my way. And so when we sat down to meditate, you know, in our, in our dorm at the Betty Ford Center for the first time, and I had to actually just sit in the present moment, and just tune into my breath and just really find some acceptance of what was occurring in the present. That was terrifying to me at first. And I ended almost maybe what like, like, I was gonna hyperventilate, because that was something I'd been running from for years was sitting in the present moment. No, but it was in pretty, pretty quick succession that my you know, my relationship evolved and changed. And then when I found myself back in school going, you know, for my master's degree in clinical psychology a few years later, it I don't know if it was just the, you know, the irony of Life, the Universe pointing me in the right direction, or just the way that, you know, mindful mindfulness has become very popular. But the very first class I took, there was a guy teaching it that was kind of a guru of mindfulness. And he turned me on to the book, Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat Zinn. Then, which is an excellent book, the first part of it, the first like 150 pages just really spells out the practice of mindfulness in a really practical way. And it just spoke to me in a way that nothing other than the sort of recovery stuff had spoken to me up until that point of the 12 steps and all this stuff I learned in rehab. Now, I understood it from a more of a psychological and mental health perspective. And I was like, okay, so this is a, this is a program for living. Beyond just staying sober and staying in recovery. It's a program for actually being more engaged in life more fully present, able to have access, as I said earlier, access to those moments of joy. Not that you can always create them or depend on them to be there, life is life. And there will be moments of pain as much as there are moments of joy. But by being fully present, and being able to be connected to living in a meaningful way, I'm able to have access to those moments, and to cultivate a life that is worth living.

Andrew Stotz 36:04
Go Full Catastrophe Living using the wisdom of your body and mind to face stress, pain and illness. I'll have a link to that also in the shownotes. Last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Ryan Dusick 36:18
The next 12 months, I have a lot on my plate, a lot of exciting things going on. Actually, I've been speaking more and more and that's one of my, my professional goals in the next immediate future is to, to be more of a professional speaker to really step it up to the next level and be able to, you know, share some of the things that I've learned on a bigger scale, I want to continue to write more in writing the book harder to breathe as has been, and was and continues to be one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done in my life. And that includes, you know, making an album that sold 20 million copies and won multiple Grammy Awards and had, you know, number one hits on it. That was obviously a very fulfilling thing. And I'm grateful for that experience. But writing the book was kind of like the culmination of everything that I've been through, up into this point in my life, and really a process that was rewarding and, and really kind of ultimate closure on some painful things, and the beginning of some new and exciting things in my life. So I want to continue to write I want to I just want to be a creative person. I've realized, being a therapist, that's really, you know, it's meaningful work, and it's very fulfilling work. But as much as I love, like being of service, I think at my core, I'm also a creative person, I love to put, you know, express myself and put things out into the world. So looking for new ways to do that, whether it be in writing, whether it be in speaking or in other forms of media, we'll just have to say,

Andrew Stotz 37:44
exciting Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. Remember, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. And as we conclude, Ryan, I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of a Science Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Ryan Dusick 38:10
Oh, you know, good luck to you on your journey. It took me quite a while to turn the page and find the moment of inspiration again, if it's been a while for you. It's still coming. It's kind of just you know, it's about being open to it.

Andrew Stotz 38:24
What a great message. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast hose Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.