Ep664: Amy Minkley – What Is Your Enough?

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win an investing you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives to join me go to my worst investment ever.com and sign up for my free weekly become a better investor newsletter where I share how to reduce risk, create, grow and protect your wealth fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests, Amy Minkley. Amy, are you ready to join the mission?

Amy Minkley 00:42
Yes, definitely. Thank you.

Andrew Stotz 00:45
I'm happy to have you. And I want to introduce you to the audience. Ladies and gentlemen, the founder of FYI, Freedom retreats at minke Lee's life changed when she discovered the financial independence movement in 2019. After working in Asia for 18 years, she was burned out in a frantic bid to save her sanity and relationship, a late night online search letter to the fire movement. That's f IR e arm with a knowledge of hundreds of fire blogs and podcasts, Amy gain a new sense of hope, overcame a one more year syndrome and quit her job in Bangkok. In 2021. She moved to Bali to live her dream life and share the message of financial independence and purposeful living, she is now happily engaged to her Australian beloved and organizing transformational Eph I retreats. Wow. Amy, tell us about the unique value that you are bringing to this wonderful world.

Amy Minkley 01:55
Thank you, Andrew, thank you for having me. The value I bring to the world is giving people an opportunity to step out of a default pattern. And I know this personally, because at least I was in a default pattern for many, many, two decades, at least of overworking and being quite unhappy in my life and offering an opportunity have a different way to live or a different way to see the world. And so, as you mentioned, I'm organizing your retreat, and I am very excited to give people an opportunity to come and experience life in Bali and also see what's possible and what you know, whatever their vision is for their own life to be able to reflect on their life and create that for themselves.

Andrew Stotz 02:40
I'm thinking about like, I like the word rut, like I got stuck in a rut when I was riding my bike down the hill, and then I crashed, you know, whatever. But a rut is such a clear thing, you know, and I think that we are all in our own ruts in one way or another. But I was just thinking about, you know, why do we get stuck in these ruts, you know, and fear breaking out. And you know, maybe we're exposed to some of these things like the fire movement as an example. But we don't respond. Because we're in our rut, maybe you can help us understand that.

Amy Minkley 03:14
Yeah, I think for me, I can't speak for everyone. But for me I was dominated by some unconscious patterns, and fears from childhood really, you know, my family had money when I was very young. And then my father left the family. And suddenly, overnight, we didn't have money. And so I although I didn't realize that for decades, I was coming from this place. And this old belief and old story of money could disappear at any moment. So in order to be safe and secure, I need to save, save, save, save, save. And in order to make sure I can save. I need to be a hard worker at my job, I need to stay there later. I need to be, you know, working on the weekends. And so that's what I did. All from unconscious patterns. So that was where I got into my read is noticing you having these beliefs that dominated my life that I didn't even realize were there that kept me in that rut.

Andrew Stotz 04:15
Yeah, it's so true. I mean, I tell the story about how when my mom came to live with me, we were talking about you know, I don't eat shellfish for some reason. I just don't like it and you know, whatever. And then my mom and I were talking about oh, you remember that time when your father and your two sisters got you know, hepatitis C from shellfish when you were six or seven. And I was like, Holy crap, wait a minute. Now I realized why I don't eat shellfish. And it's simply because I had this negative connotation at that very young age. And then it just went into my mind and the rest of my life. I didn't eat shellfish, and I didn't even know why I didn't eat shellfish until my mom came in. We talked about that. So that's a great time. A thing. And I also have a friend of mine that she had been abandoned by her parents. And she knew that this was an issue. So she had awareness of the issue. But dealing with the issue was another story is going to be an avalanche of emotion, whereas the shellfish one, it was completely on, you know, I didn't have any awareness of it, and it wasn't an emotional avalanche to deal with the issue. I'm curious, like, how you think about how so once we start to question things, we start to realize, where did I get that story? And how do we, how do we go down that path of kind of investigating and trying to understand that, when we know that it can be brutally painful?

Amy Minkley 05:44
Yeah. I mean, I think you mentioned, you know, the first thing is to recognize it, and to be aware of these beliefs, you know, which I didn't even see, you know, hard, I have to work hard to, you know, to be successful or to be safe. And then I have to save a lot to be safe, you know, to, and money can disappear any moment to recognize that belief. But then, as you said, it can be very hard to shift it still. And for me, some things that are quite painful and quite scary in a way is to really face those fears, and to really get real about them. You know, what if all of the terrible things that I imagined happened, and what do they all happen to once you know, what if the stock market's crashes and stays low for, you know, longer than usual, five plus years? What if, you know, something happened with my help? And I had to cover that? And to actually, and it's hard to do, but you know, to to journal? I've done some journaling about that. What if all these super scary things that I imagined happened, and they all happen at the same time, which is, you know, probably unlikely, but what what would I be able to do with it in that case, and I have a lot of options, I have, you know, great connections, I have a lot of expertise in my career, I have quit my job in Bangkok. But I know without a shadow of a doubt, I can always go out and generate more money if I need to. And so, you know, for a lot of years, I stayed trapped in a job that wasn't actually that bad. But it wasn't my true calling anymore. And it wasn't my best life anymore. And to, to step away from that in a job where I was able to save a lot each year, around $90,000 USD a year I was saving. So that kind of kept me trapped over when we're able to work when we're year. But when I sat down and I journaled and I thought, well, what's the worst case that can happen? If I take a year or two off, or three or four, and I can always go back and work it, you know, in fact, I found because I have taken two sabbatical years before and I thought, oh, even taking this sabbatical years, you know, will I still be attracted to employers, and you know, a lot of times they love that experience different life experiences. So I think whatever listeners are dealing with whatever fears or beliefs, they may have, you know, journaling, and going into that worst case scenario, and also thinking, what if it's better than I imagined? You know, I live so much from fear on what if this, and what if that, but what if new opportunities present themselves to me because I have no more time and space and energy to recognize them. And I find other ways to make money. And there's so much better than I could even imagine. So, I think really allowing, if listeners can allow themselves to wrestle with whatever beliefs they have, and whatever fears around that and then thinking about, you know, the possibility that it could also open up?

Andrew Stotz 08:36
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, facing the fear is the way this, you know, in some ways, you could say there's only one way through it, and that is through it. And I would say that I my relationship with money is kind of neutral. We were not deprived when I was young, but we didn't have that much we saved and you know, all that, but we weren't obsessive about it. And so I never had like, I never had a big worry about money. I always felt like I could make it and all that. But one of the things that I did five, maybe 10 years ago is I really started to work on a mantra. And you know, maybe maybe for the listeners out there, if you're driving a car or something, don't do this, but if you're relaxing, and you're in a chair, or you're standing up while you're at the park, you know, what I want to do is let's, let's do the mantra together. What do you think, Amy?

Amy Minkley 09:29
I love it.

Andrew Stotz 09:30
My mantra requires a physical movement. You have to put our hands up like this, right? Like, like, we're receiving something from the world. So I'm putting my hands up, and I'm receiving and the mantra is, money flows to me. So let's say it together.

Amy Minkley 09:48
Yeah. I love it. Money flows to me.

Andrew Stotz 09:51
That's it. Yeah. And that's my mantra. money flows to me. I like that one more than wealth or wanting to get rich or being dependent are anything that money flows to me, I can give it away if I want, sometimes I can spend it on other things, I can save it. But money flows to me now in order for money to flow. I think we've got to bring value to the world too, right? Yes. So I'm just curious, like, what your thinking is on that side of things, like you said, I mean, obviously, you know, you could go straight into a job and bring value for a salary. But tell me about the value in you know, how you've had your kind of, let's say, value journey of the value that you're bringing to this world?

Amy Minkley 10:31
Yes. Great. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, this is, this is a journey for me still. And so I'm still learning how to overcome some of those old wounds and fears and scarcity around money. And, you know, learning how to really value my time is something I'm still working on, because as an employer, you know, it's very easy, my salary was set very, very much based on my, you know, my master's degree, or how many years experience I worked, I was an international school teacher working in, in prestigious international schools in Asia. So, you know, that was a very transparent system, unlike a lot of corporate careers, where the salary is not negotiated as much. But I am still learning how to really value my time because I, you know, I am creating value for people with a retreat. I am making it affordable, because I want it to be something that lots of people can come to. And I also recognize that there is sometimes a fear in me, like, I don't want to charge too much, you know, and it is a passion project for me, as well. So that's a that's an interesting question about creating value, because I feel like I need to do your Mantra Mantra a little more, because it is, I, I do have enough of a nest egg, you know, according to fire principles, to not have to, to not worry about it anymore. Yeah. And I'm also wanting to generate a little bit of income, you know, to cover some expenses. But I can also draw down at this stage, if I would like,

Andrew Stotz 11:59
you know, one of the things I like about talking to you the the times that we talked earlier, and is it basically I you get this feeling of authenticity, like you know, you you're you're going down the path, down that path, but you're not saying I'm here at the end, I'm at the mountain top, I've got no, I, I can guide you to where I am. And then let's go further. And I think that, that there's so much authenticity that and I think that's probably why you get you know, so many people wanting to join, because that that's the type of person that I think we all want to work with, you know, I mean, it's great to say, oh, yeah, he was so and so's millions and millions and they're at the mountaintop. But you know, that's not relatable to most of us. One of the things that I took a course by Amy Porterfield and I spent an inordinate amount of money, whatever that word is, and I spent, I think, $1,600 on digital course Academy, right. And it was crazy, particularly when you look at, you can buy a course on Udemy for $10, right. And so I just thought, Okay, I'm going to do this, I've listened to a podcast long enough, I'm going to do this. So I went into the course and I had an intern working with me at the time. So he and I kind of went through the course together. And I had him take notes and helped me with some things when I didn't have time, and then we just kept going through it. But in the end, what I learned from it is that we've got to deliver some sort of transformation, you've got to really deliver and therefore once we can come up with that, then we can charge more. And I think that was my block. It said I felt like an you know, like, I'm just another course out there, you know, on different courses. And so I decided to implement it with my valuation masterclass boot camp, that we're going to really deliver a transformation. Right. And so, the first kickoff of the bootcamp, which is next Monday, by the way, I always wear my bootcamp hat. I love it. I love it. It is. And I always say the same thing. The valuation masterclass is about transformation, on information. Yes. And I try to help everybody in the class I repeat that over and over and over for the six weeks. And I try to have them kind of declare their transformation, which is different for everybody. But once you start to create a transformative process, which I think you are, but you got to call it out. You got to really make it clear. You got to help people see that transformation. Once you do that, then the value comes and then now I can charge what Amy charges because without any fear or worry, because I know I'm generally delivering a transmission and you know what the transformation is for a lot of young people. Number one, they've been left behind by adults, giving them back Add quality courses online zoom, not letting them go to school, you know, whatever nonsense. And also the I would say they're being let down by adults too, because of what's happening with their mobile phones and the attention issue that's going on around the world. And adults haven't helped them at all that you know, 1516 20 year olds have. Their minds are absolutely distracted. And nobody's helping them. Yeah. So when they come into the boot camp, and they get kind of whipped in shape, and they're like, it's serious, and we got peer support. But you know, this is serious, and you got to go to go after you realize that a huge part of the transformation is just helping people focus on the transformation,

Amy Minkley 15:46
right? Yes, yeah. And I feel like I know, the value is there for my retreat. I mean, it's sold out really quick. And the quality of speakers that I'm interviewing now I've interviewed a lot of two dozen speakers already, that want to come and speak is phenomenal. And coming to Bali in itself. You know, for me, when I moved here, it just opened my eyes. And I thought I had a great life. But it opened my eyes to possibility. So I noticed the value is there. I think I did under pricing initially, because I was you know, not really sure. But it's my first one. But yeah, I definitely know that. You know, transformation. It's, as you say, Andrew, it's not about information. It's about transformation, and giving people access to possibility options, choice, a sense of a new sense of freedom to break out of that rut, you know, that at least I know I was in, and to give them some time and space to reflect on their life is so valuable.

Andrew Stotz 16:41
Maybe can you tell us a little bit about me, you know, we you and I talked about this episode not being about a specific story, but more kind of your general experience. Number one, but also, I wanted to understand a little bit more about the event, because that helps us to understand to the way you think about things and the way you're structuring things. So feel free to take it any way you want. direction you want.

Amy Minkley 17:06
Sure, I mean, I had this idea, you know, when I was working in Bangkok, like you Andr and was unhappy in my job and over an old pattern of overworking over saving, saving 90% of my income investing in all you know, I have to work one more year, save more, save more kind of mentality, and working myself into the ground, and not having balanced which I hadn't had any any of the years that I worked. But I had this idea to have a conference in Asia because Asia is my home, I've lived here a long time, I love Bali, and I've lived my sabbatical life and Bali and really seen what my best life looks like. And I think the power of community is so important. So I mean, it the event, you know, not only are we going to have adventures together in Bali, and connect with the Balinese people in the Balinese culture and go out and do fun things together as a group. Really, for me, the value is community. And I've been to six fire events in the US, I'm going to three more in the next two months, because I'm headed back to the US for a few a few months. And you know, I value these events so much because I feel like I meet very intelligence, skilled, generous people who are so giving of their time and, and expertise at these events, not only from the speakers, but from the community members. And I can't tell you what an impact that's made on me, you know, to sit down and have someone log into my Vanguard account with me looking at my asset allocations, just giving their time to, you know, talk with me about some of my money worries and concerns and help counsel me through that. To think about some of these worst case scenarios and have the trust to step out on a leap of faith and follow my passion and, and my intuition, you know, to talk about healthcare, and what do you do when you're not employed anymore, all of these things, I feel like there's so much expertise in the audience and in the community. And people are incredibly kind and generous. And so I'm going to bring in great speakers. And I know a lot of the people who are coming and they have a lot of expertise. And so they're very money savvy people already. And so my goal is to bring in speakers that you know, will offer them information and knowledge but like you say transformation is more important. And so it's really also about bringing in something new and surprising them with something they haven't thought about already.

Andrew Stotz 19:36
You know, the story that in my life is that my mother and father, you know, raised three kids and my father worked full time at DuPont, but it wasn't like he was making huge amounts of money. And my mother was a housewife. And you know, I would say we never were lacking of things at home of any you know, amount we didn't expect a lot but you Uh, but when my mom came to Thailand after my dad passed away, and we sat down and reviewed her portfolio, I just said, you're 78. And you've gotten enough that you don't need to worry for the rest of your life. You know, you couldn't spend what you've got, you know, in probably 10 years. And I'm here also, you know, so. And that was a remarkable discussion to have, and what percent of people are in that position? Very few. Yeah. So when we talk about transformation, and I think for the listeners out there, you know, what I want, what I want to bring to the listeners is that it's possible, but it's not easy. You know, it takes, you've got to get focused at a young age, you've got to, you know, as I say, in the podcast, create, grow and protect our wealth, you've got to separate creating wealth, from growing wealth. And creating wealth may happen through a business, it may happen through a salary. But every month, you need that money machine, that you're creating the wealth, that you're then carefully growing through the markets, as you've talked about, you know, Vanguard in the light, and then and then ultimately, you have to also protect it, because it doesn't do any good. If you've stayed up and invested, and you're far along, and then all of a sudden, you make a big mistake, boom, you're set back. So I always try to focus on Create, grow and protect, but maybe you can give some, from your own experience of kind of what would be core advice that you would give for the listeners out there. Who are I know, some of my listeners, and my viewers are, you know, they're working hard, just like you in their jobs. And they're, you know, they're trying to save, they got family, they got a lot of other things going on, but let's, let's help give them some guidance.

Amy Minkley 21:48
Yeah, I feel like, you know, really getting clear about for me, what are my values? And spending on that, you know, because it is, I've, I've been an obsessive saver in my life. So I needed to think about how can I spend money on things that I value, but I think if listeners can get really clear about what are my values and spinning on those things, and not what other people value? So, you know, in the US, it's a consumeristic society with the bigger house bigger car, but really thinking about, you know, Is that enough? Is that what I need? What is my enough, and, and then once you know what your enough is to make you happy, you know, that will allow you to grow the gap between what you're earning and what you're spending and then invest that gap. And the more that you can grow that gap and invest it, you know, I love low cost index funds, and just set it and forget it, leave it for decades, you know, it will not worry about the ups and downs of the market and watch those and be worried about that. I mean, I feel like, you know, I love what you say about create, grow and protect your wealth, you know, that's so important. And then I think also like when, you know, as you said, with a conversation with your mom, you know, also recognizing, at some point, like, you know, it is okay to I know, the fire movement for so long has been so focused on depriving themselves, you know, and then to for this future date, and then they're going to, they're going to retire early, but they really don't enjoy the journey. So I think there is some balance there of, you know, ensuring that we create, grow and protect, and also enjoy the journey and spend on what we value.

Andrew Stotz 23:29
You know, I had a time when I got to high school, my parents said, Well, it's time for you to move out. And I didn't have money to go to university or anything. So I lived on nothing. I mean, I worked at a factory, making $3.35 an hour, which was minimum wage back then and barely, barely surviving. And but I remember having a lot of fun, you know, and I was, I had just gotten sober. So I was, you know, not drinking or doing any drugs at the time. So I was having great times with my new friends and meeting a lot of people and going to meetings and all of that stuff. And it was fantastic. And it helped me to understand that money is not correlated with happiness, you know, it's kind of uncorrelated. There's no real strong correlation, positive and negative. That's the way I viewed it. And then later, when, when the 1998 1987 crisis happened in 1988, was just a disaster. For my business, my coffee factory here in Thailand, as well as my job as an investment banker, as an analyst, all fell apart, and I lost that and the factory was so close to basically shutting down and we had to move into the factory and all that, you know, I can survive. And I realized, like, having this neutral frame to money helped me to realize I can go through, you know, anything and the ups and downs of it. So that was you know, one of the things that that I was thinking about as you were talking and the second thing I was thinking about as you know, there was this very really popular book many years ago when I was younger, which is called Rich Dad Poor Then, and I read it. And I thought it was pretty good, you know, I thought was pretty interesting and all that. But now as I look back, I realize it's terrible advice. It's like awful advice

Amy Minkley 25:11
to get on a lot of debt really use, you know,

Andrew Stotz 25:14
that what people don't realize is that the problem is, is that what was the rich dad, the rich dad was a businessman, he was an entrepreneur. So what percent of the population in this was an entrepreneur? Yeah, naught, point, one, maybe point 01. Think about big businesses that maybe started by one guy, one man, one woman. And the rest of people are basically working. And I realized that what that book does is it inspires you to be an entrepreneur, but if that goes out to the masses, is going to be a hell of a lot of disappointment, when they realize that they've lost everything and all their time, and they're not really an entrepreneur. And that's when I started to think more deeply about the idea of, you know, create, grow, protect. And that's where I realized that, well, for the person who's an entrepreneur, you've got to create your money machine out of your monthly salary. That's Yes,

Amy Minkley 26:05
yes. Yeah, just the boring path. You know, I love JL Collins book, The Simple Path to Wealth, but, you know, just really set it up, set it and forget it and don't have to worry about it. You got it there on your shelf. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Stotz 26:23
So let's, let's wrap up. Now, one of the things I want to ask you is if people like what you're doing, and they want to learn more, where's the best place to find you?

Amy Minkley 26:33
Yes, they can go to fi freedom retreats.com. And they retreat in September is sold out. However, I'm trying to open up a few more rooms that they'd like to add their name to the waiting list, that would be great. I am planning a retreat for May I think 2024. So I've had such a great response. I definitely say that there's a need for community because it can get lonely on this journey, you know, saving and you know, just trying to build for your retirement. Being around like minded people, you know, who give us ideas, who inspire us to see something new and a new possibility for our lives is incredible. So I think getting together there's nothing like an in person community to really bring some enthusiasm to the journey and reinvigorate you on your savings and investing journey and, and sometimes learning one piece of information. I mean, I've gone to all of these, I'm going to you know, nine after this in by May. I've always they feel like investments to me, because I've learned tips or gotten ideas that I wouldn't have had otherwise. So it opens up a lot of possibility. Well, listeners,

Andrew Stotz 27:41
Bobby's not that far from many of my listeners who are in Asia. But for those that are in America, what a great chance. So what we'll do is I'll have the links in the show notes to that. You say the first one, the most recent one that you're doing is already full. But let's put it in the show notes so people can check it out. And I'm gonna check it out. Also, I don't travel that much anymore. I must admit I haven't been traveling much. Okay. Now let me ask you for the person that says I can't make it. But I like what you're saying. And I want to get started. I don't know much about fire movement. And I want to get started . what's the best resource that you'd recommend for their starting point?

Amy Minkley 28:20
I would recommend JL Collins A Simple Path to Wealth. I love that book. I feel like it's and there's so many podcasts and books and you know, I listen to the Choose fi podcast afford anything podcast, Stacking Benjamins, your podcast, you know, they're already listening to those podcasts. You know, those are kind of us specific podcasts. But there's great podcasts in Australia and Europe. You know, Captain fi, my Millennial Money in Australia. So you know, there's firepot podcasts, depending on your investment options, you know, different parts of the world. I think those are great resources. And I do think finding an in person event near you is great or a meet up. There is something about meeting people in person and having those conversations that's very important.

Andrew Stotz 29:07
Would they find that like, I don't know, like Bangkok as an example? Or they're in New York or, you know, LA or something like that? How would they find it?

Amy Minkley 29:16
I mean, there are other events going on in the US such as Camp phi.org, which I went to, you know, six of those, and I love them. And there's meetup groups as well online. So you could search in, in Australia, there's not as many multi day events, which there is something special about that. You know, you can go to a one day meetup or have beers or find those meetup groups. But building a relationship with people over time and really having some deeper conversations is nice. So that's why I wanted to create something in the Asia Pacific region region because there wasn't any multi day event over here. And in Europe as well, there's not a multi day event. But yeah, I think if someone searches online for fire meetups in whatever country they're in, or looks sometimes on a local meetup group with choose fi, they might be able to find a meetup group or they can send me a message and I can help them as well.

Andrew Stotz 30:11
It's interesting, you know, I teach a lot of events and I just this that the second morning of the event is like magic. It's like, Okay, I'm back. And everybody's back. And we're committed to this. And it's just something magical about that second day, so I know what you mean. Alright, last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months.

Amy Minkley 30:34
My number one goal is to create an incredible five freedom event, and to bring in mazing speakers and, and a great group of people and really created time for people to talk and connect, you know, to build those relationships in their life. I know they're going to be lifelong friendships, because that's what I felt when I went to the US. I met lifelong friends that I still stay in touch with.

Andrew Stotz 30:56
Fantastic well listeners there you haven't another story to keep you winning. Remember, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. If you've not yet joined that mission, just go to my worst investment ever.com and join my frequent free my freakley, see if

Amy Minkley 31:13
I like it, frankly,

Andrew Stotz 31:14
frankly, become a better investor newsletter to reduce risk in your life. As we conclude, Amy, I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of a stocks Academy I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Amy Minkley 31:33
I would say take the plunge in your life and really reflect on what you want in your life. And think about is my money aligning with that and then take it take a plunge with it.

Andrew Stotz 31:43
Fantastic. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast hose Andrew Stotz saying I'll see you on the upside.