Ep651: Terri Spath – Always Know When to Buy and When to Fold

Andrew Stotz 00:01
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community we know that to win in investing you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. Join me go to my worst investment ever.com and sign up for a free weekly become a better investor newsletter where I share how to reduce risk and create grow and protect your wealth. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests. Terri Spath. Terry, are you ready to join the mission?

Terri Spath 00:39
I'm absolutely ready. And you're the host. I love the show. Thanks for having me on.

Andrew Stotz 00:44
Yeah, but let me let me introduce you to the audience. Terry is the founder and CIO of Zoomer wealth LLC and has earned top performance marks stewarding billions of dollars had large investment shops through the booms and busts of the past quarter century. A renowned expert Terry is a regular guest on CNBC and Bloomberg TV and a sought after industry speaker. She was named a top 10 inspiring women of 2022 and shortlisted by the women in asset management awards. She's earned the CFA Charter, the CFP certification, an MBA from Columbia University and an A B from the University of Michigan, Terry started investing when her father introduced you to the concept of compound interest when she learned she could make money in her sleep, Terry, take a moment and tell us about the unique value that you are bringing to this wonderful world.

Terri Spath 01:43
Oh, thanks, Andrew. And thanks for having me on to the show. It's, I always enjoy hearing what your other guests have to say you learn so much when you make a mistake, versus when you don't. So it's great to be here and to talk and with your audience about you know, what, what mistakes they can avoid, that I've already made for them to help them navigate their way through the investment markets and hopefully make more money and lose less.

Andrew Stotz 02:08
Hmm. Tell us a bit like what what's something that you're invested in that you're thinking about that you're looking at in global markets or in your business that we could think about, you know, to understand more about the type of stuff that you're doing?

Terri Spath 02:23
Right? Yeah, so Well, we work with individual clients to help them manage their individual investments. And, you know, if we were to focus on an area right now, and get kind of time specific on that, it's interesting that you're speaking to me in Thailand, I really think that a lot of us here in the United States have forgotten that there are stock markets outside of our borders and emerging markets in developed markets. And those are having, maybe it's not to you, but to us here in the United States a bit of a stealth bull market. They're outperforming what's going on here in the US. And so we're absolutely focused on uncovering things that people might be missing in the market. And right now, that's our number one focus is is international outside of these borders, in the stock markets, and how to participate in those to diversify portfolios as well to just make more money overall.

Andrew Stotz 03:12
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to get into emerging markets when there's a raging bull going on in the US. But that Raging Bull has come to a halt and may be bouncing back. But you know, it's can't, it's hard to imagine we're gonna get another 10 years of a bull market. And so therefore, emerging markets look interesting, I was just looking at interest rates recently, and I was looking at, you know, emerging markets never had the benefit of zero interest rates. Here in Thailand, if the, if the central bank decided we're going to print a lot of currency and hand that money out to our, you know, people in our country, because of COVID, and blah, blah, blah, our currency would be crushed instantly, we have the pressure of the market, whereas reserve currencies like the US in the Euro, and maybe the yen, don't have these pressures of market pressures to the same extent. And so on the one hand, they didn't have the benefit of being able to kind of hand out money to the, to the citizenry in emerging markets, but it also means that they went through this time, you know, pretty tough, and now they're coming out strong. So I think your idea about the emerging markets is very interesting right now.

Terri Spath 04:25
Well, and I think you raised an absolutely very good point, because what's going on in the US now is, is we've got inflation. Oh, what do you know, you print a lot of money and you got high inflation. It's sort of textbook economics 101. That's what happens when you flood, a money supply. It raises inflation. And so rather than sort of do it the right way, which perhaps they have done in emerging markets by by not making it quite so easy, you know, they're going to recover and are recovering and snapping back in a more dramatic fashion than I think we're going to be capable of here in the US.

Andrew Stotz 05:00
It's interesting talk, it's interesting talking to you, because, you know, I left la in 1992. And if you recall what was happening in LA at the time, we had the Rodney King situation and the verdict of that, which was, you know, an awful situation of police brutality. And, and then, you know, LA was on fire. At that time, I was a supervisor at a Pepsi factory at Buena Park. And, you know, the, the factory workers and myself, we went up, you know, we were all kind of on the factory floor, we all went up to the top of the building and looked out and just saw pillars of smoke from South Central and all around LA. And it was just like, wow, it's just and I left. And then what was going on in Thailand was we were having a military coup and all of that stuff. So. But I came to Thailand, 30 years ago, I haven't even really been back to the US for six years since I brought my mother to live with me here. And it's just interesting, because I had a belief that emerging markets were going to do well. And I thought I wanted to live here. And now we've seen such a bull market. But I think for Americans, it's probably time to be looking at emerging markets again. So yeah, it's interesting to talk to you, because that kind of connects me back to where I was in LA.

Terri Spath 06:16
Yeah, and that was quite a scar on LA's history that you raised. And, you know, as a follow up to this podcast, you're making me think of a chart that I just saw at a presentation last week that showed what which markets do well, which asset classes do well, in sort of 10 year periods. And it's never sort of the same. It's never the same asset class for the next 10 years. So the US was the past 10 years. And this was making the case actually, for emerging markets, and how it's been in the basement, it's been beat up, it's been forgotten, it's been under representative in portfolios. And all these things are coming together, as well as sort of the the fundamentals that you that you raised about how they managed through COVID, and the money supply and the decisions that were made. And it really makes a pretty convincing, compelling case for why you really want to make sure you're not underweight, and maybe even overweight. And we're leaning towards overweight in the emerging markets for our client portfolios. At this point, we think it makes a lot of sense.

Andrew Stotz 07:17
Yeah. And one of the challenges too, is a currency because you know, you can look at the US dollar, and you can think, Oh, this is going to cut in half, or it's going to double. It's such a difficult one, there's a lot of people that lost a lot thinking that wait a minute, they're going to print all this money, this currency is going to collapse. But then you have the military power, the political influence the financial influence of the US, which I've seen kind of firsthand, being outside of the US and seeing the way America treats other countries and other places. And I just think, well, the military power of America will probably protect $1 for a while longer, but can't last forever, I guess I don't know, it's the currency is a tough one.

Terri Spath 08:01
It's a tough one. And I'm sort of biting my tongue, because I've just, I can never get that call quite right in terms of the timing. But you've got a falling interest rate environment here in the US, you've got slower relative growth, you've got declining inflation that, you know, all translates into some problems for the dollar. So And potentially, some other currencies that the rest of the world are picking up on. So I you know, that's not really my area of expertise. I think that comes into the conversation, for sure. But you raised some really compelling parts of the whole puzzle for emerging markets. But for us here in the US that we also need to consider.

Andrew Stotz 08:41
Yeah, it's interesting. When I started as an analyst, we were talking about our CFA backgrounds, before we turned on the recorder, and we both got our CFA charter a long time ago, mine was in 2001. And yours was in 1990s. Yep. But the Thai industry, the Thai mutual fund industry basically didn't have any competition and you couldn't invest outside of Thailand, we had a closed capital account and all that and tightly and open that capital account eventually. And what they did is they basically allowed a local asset management company to set up what would be called a foreign investment fund, where the underlying asset was, let's say an ETF. And so they may own a Vanguard ETF in that instrument, but because they were so terrified that Thai people may not really understand the currency risk, they basically required that they would all be currency hedged. So it's something that's lasted for a long time. So if an individual investor in Thailand sets up a brokerage account now goes and buys Apple, they're not going to be currency hedge, but if they bought a mutual fund in Thailand, that invested in the US, you know, or let's say they buy, you know, s&p s ETF directly through a broker here, they're going to be exposed to currency risk, but for many of them in the mutual fund space, they're not exposed to it. currency risk, which is an interesting, you know, thing that they kind of did to protect the investor. But it's it's a lingering thing that's still there, and it has its good times, and maybe it will be it's good times if the US dollar does face, you know, a downside. So

Terri Spath 10:16
again, I'm not really making a call on that. But I think that on the margin, it's, you know, it weighs towards a weaker US dollar going forward for some of the reasons I sort of rattled off falling interest rates, slower relative growth. Yeah, those are two big ones that suggests this weaker dollar in the in the months and years ahead. And there's been a, you know, vague, probably bigger than not vague, like loss of Cotler, or on the margin loss of confidence in the US dollar, you know, I mean, I'm sure you hear that much more outside of our borders than here than here inside of our borders. But I think that that's why you saw so much strength for a while and cryptocurrencies and people are groping and reaching for other alternatives to the US dollar, because they don't like some of the things that are going on. And they think on a relative basis, it's going to be weakening. And you know, at some point, you see a tipping point. And perhaps, that takes a lot longer than people may guess. But, but I do think that those are risks that that you're probably more aware of outside of our borders, in Thailand and other places, and perhaps we are in Los Angeles, in California, and across the United States, you know,

Andrew Stotz 11:25
we're really aware of, and I was aware of it in 2008, during the Obama administration, when the US government really started using its power through the financial system, to basically if you're an Australian man or woman, and you go to Hong Kong, and you set up a Hong Kong bank account, the US government requires that you set up that bank must provide a US tax related document, to that Australian who doesn't have any business in the US. And to that Hong Kong bank, they have to do that. And when they initiated all of that FATCA stuff that they brought in, and then they started to use the control of the financial system to do sanctions against individuals and companies against people they didn't like, that hadn't really kicked off real strong after the 2008, the mortgage crisis that the US went through, that was when I think a lot of people saw oh, wait a minute, hold on, this is interesting. And now we've seen the full weaponization of that. And so for a lot of people, they're just afraid, like if I, this, if I, if I'm in this system of the US dollar, there's a risk that I could just be shut down, even though I don't even do anything outside of, you know, the, you know, my country or whatever. So I think that that's another pressure on the currency. And I would say, what's happening over the last couple of years is accelerating that because countries are seeing Holy crap, if you can do that against other countries, whether that's, you know, Russia, in this case, as an example, and the threats there for China related to the US dollar, then I think people are thinking, Hey, I've got to protect myself, because if my bank accounts get shut down, my business is out. So that's another pressure is a little bit different from, let's say, the behavior of the government, but just a lot to think of a lot to think about.

Terri Spath 13:17
Yeah, yeah, that's it. Those are some great stories and illustrations that we're not always focused on sitting here and, you know, in our comfortable places in the United States, not thinking about stuff that is actually going on.

Andrew Stotz 13:31
Yeah, well, it's, it's great to talk about all these things. But you know what, it's now time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment, thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to and then tell us your story.

Terri Spath 13:44
Oh, gosh, I thought I was getting out of it. And so never. Fortunately, there's like one bad investment I've ever made in my entire, you know, 20 plus year career investing in the markets. Obviously, that's not the case. But you know, I've sort of reached back into into the beginning of my investment career too, because those were when the biggest mistakes were made. For me. I came out of Columbia Business School and got hired into a big company on the West Coast. I had a lot of money that I was investing in, I'd learned a lot. I was studying for the CFA, and I went to Columbia Business School, which I mentioned, which is actually where Warren Buffett went. And the philosophy of Columbia is very much in line with Benjamin Graham and Warren Buffett, which is that value investing really pick good companies that have great moats around them and strong management and buy them at a dirt cheap price. And, and that's what you should do. And so I came out, you know, well, well trained in that arena and working for a big company and starting to put those ideas to work. And in this was in sort of the mid 90s and into the late 90s. And I at the time lived up in the bay area in San Francisco and so at That time we started having more and more of these technology and internet companies that were coming out. And it's not going to be the story you think I realized, as I'm, as I'm mentioning this, it's not going to be what you think. But so the way it works at the company I was at is I was assigned to industry. So I covered the retail industry, the consumer products, industries, and I covered all the stocks that fell under that umbrella. And as you started to get some of these new technology, companies that were coming out, like an amazon.com, actually at like a monster.com, like pets.com, like web then which was a grocery delivery company, they were like Terry, we don't know what these companies are, they seem like retail companies will put them under your coverage. And so I was writing that that big wave of, of all the exciting, you know, new companies that were coming out, and where my mistake comes in, so I you know, again, we were buying conservatively for in, in my training that I learned at Columbia about buying stuff cheap, I wasn't gonna get fooled by these, you know, I'm gonna buy companies because they have a lot of eyeballs but no profits. That was what they were telling us is how we should look at some of these companies that were coming out. And that's not to say I didn't play around with these on the side. But where I'm going with this whole story is that that really pulled the market up all the frenzy and excitement that was going on in in internet retail as well as a lot of the other internet companies and the technology companies that were being built around those the Cisco's the the Oracle's that were driving a lot of the background for, for the growth of these companies. And when some of those started to collapse it had a ripple effect that then killed the technology stocks, so then it killed the NASDAQ then it killed the broader markets. And so while I gambled on the side with a lot of these fun internet retail companies, you know, I covered monster.com and got to ride around in a blimp that said monster.com on it. I'm like, This is not you know, I don't know if I want to invest in this company. But I certainly want to ride your blimp. But But where I'm going with all this is I had bought on behalf of clients, some terrific companies that I had learned how to buy, because I knew how to value companies and I knew how to assess them and analyze them. And I knew what was a good purchase. But when everything started to go down, not just internet retail, but all the technology companies and then the broader market. I just kept hanging on to those stocks. I didn't know when to sell, even when I had good companies. And the biggest mistake I made was holding on to great what I thought were great companies or good stocks in really just terrible markets. And that was you know, a money losing proposition that lost money that wasn't recouped for for not weeks, months, but years. So the mistake really that where I'm trying to tell you with this story is that you can have a company that you think are a stock that you think is a really great stock and that you've made money on. But not knowing when to get out of the way you can actually end up losing significant profits, all your profits. And much much worse, if you're not paying attention to the broader markets and having some sort of discipline as to when to get out when to sell when to when to fold.

Andrew Stotz 18:36
And is it one question I have about this? Before I'm going to ask you the next question, which is about you know, what you learned? Is it different for if you were applying those principles as an individual investor versus as an institutional investor, representing the interests of the client that, you know, is probably maybe could be more short term compared to what you could be? Is there a difference there? Or is it pretty much Hey, come on, you know, good stocks in terrible environments is not a good idea.

Terri Spath 19:08
I think that's a good, good question. And obviously, everyone has their different time horizons. And, you know, obviously, if it's for your own personal account, and I imagine that a lot of people listening to this are doing a lot of their own trading. You know, I It's absolutely the case that you can you don't want to get too married to your favorite stocks, you really do you want to know when to get out away. But I think that that also makes sense on behalf of when you're looking at an institutional level. I mean, I think that there's a lot of institutions out there that they'll just kind of set it and forget it, they hold on something for very long periods of time, that look up after a quarter or a year and find that they've lost their clients quite a lot of money. And so I think, you know, I do think that it makes a ton of sense, regardless of what your time horizon is to make sure that you understand, you know, Getting back to the risk, which is the focus of this show and we do this for our clients is we make sure that we just get out of the way things go down a whole lot faster than they go up, right? You take kind of the stairs up when you're making money and take that elevator straight down. And so I think regardless of whether it's for yourself, whether it's an institution managing for others, it, it really is part of the investment side of is selling, as well as you buy in and buying as well as you sell. On the other hand, too. So yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you just have to get out of the way, if it's a massively awful market, you can get back in at a lower price if you have the right discipline in place.

Andrew Stotz 20:40
So how would you? Obviously that's part of the answer, but how would you describe the lessons that you learned?

Terri Spath 20:47
Well, the lesson that I learned is don't make the same mistake twice. Right? I mean, is, it don't make the same mistake twice. And what I really learned and now, you know, having been in the markets in great markets, and terrible markets, with big, well known, I've worked with big well known investors, I've worked with obscure investors, I've worked for people that are managing lots of money and not lots of money, what I have observed, and this is what I learned, through that.com era where it was just sort of everything went down. And you've seen that and other periods of time, is that there is that investors tend to be and myself was included. I tend to be better at one side of the trade than the other, I tend to be better, you know, and your listeners maybe are to tend to be better at buying a stock versus when to sell it, or selling versus when to buy it there. You know, you hear perma there a lot or perma bulls a lot. And I think that you see that even when people don't realize that they're perma bulls, they're just always looking for the good side of the story. They forget to add in that. So side of the equation. And same with perma bears. I mean, you hear some people, they sound really smart and great markets, and they make it really scared as to what could potentially go on. They're really good at selling, but not really good at buying. And so really the big lesson that I learned is which side? Are you better at which side am I Terry was I better out I was better at buying I had been trained as to how to value a stock and what was a good time to buy it. But I had no idea when when it made sense to get out of the way when to sell it when to cut losses when to take profit, when to look for something that is going to be a better investment opportunity. And I think that that was something that came through that, you know, just holding on to that like, Okay, this is good. This is good. The whole markets going down. Yeah. And all the technicals are saying get out of the way, but still holding on to that. So having a sell strategy is the big lesson that I learned fairly early in my career and then applying that on a regular basis, day in and day out. And because otherwise it doesn't work.

Andrew Stotz 23:01
Well, those that's great learning. I took a lot of notes as you were talking, and maybe I'll share a couple of things that I took away. One of the things that I I had a client when I was an analyst on the sell side from the US that they contacted me, you know, when I was a young analyst, I had been maybe 10 years as an analyst in Thailand. And they the guy asked me said you've been in Thailand for 10 years and looking at the markets, what's one piece of advice you would give me about investing in Thailand. And I said, Throw out your buy and hold strategy. The volatility of the Thai market is three times the US market at that time. And you have to be comfortable to trade around your position. And so you just made me think about that conversation of being okay. Yeah, exactly. The second thing I wrote down was thinking about, it's interesting that you said it's about Columbia, because it realize, like, the whole thing is about buying, value investing and all that it's all about buying, it's really very limited amount of time, I'd say if we could classify and we looked at all the hours that you spent, or that a student spends there, it may be only 5% of that time was talking about when to sell the rest of it is the exciting story about when to buy. So I think you really raise the awareness to all of us focused on when to sell. Now one way to do that is stop losses. And I do employ stop losses at times because it just forces me to sell. Another way of doing that is what I would call partial stop losses. So to say, Okay, if that stock price goes down to from I bought it at 100. If it goes down to 75, I'm selling half of it. Yeah. And then I'll rethink and just by being able to sell a portion of it and then and then and coming back at it from a different perspective, it is fascinating. So I think that that's interesting that we're really taught all about how to buy and in my value Should masterclass bootcamp. That's all I'm teaching. And I'm going to talk to my students tonight about this discussion and say, let's talk just briefly about you know, when to sell. And then the last thing I wrote down was flow of funds. And this is really important when, when the flow is against you. It doesn't matter what your idea is, it doesn't matter the quality of the company. Now, you may be able to withstand a flow of funds, you know, events, when money's coming out of the market, and everything's going down as an individual, you may say, I can do it, but most people can't handle that. And maybe you don't need to handle that, because you should try to get out. But in Thailand, and in emerging markets were so tiny, I used to call it like the bathtub versus the sink, the US is like a full bathtub in Thailand is like a little sink. And when the US decides to take, we just take a little scooper of a bucket, and we take out some water out of the bathtub, when we put it in a sink is it's overflowing the sink, right? You know, and when they decided to take out a bucket out of the emerging markets and put it back into the US is almost nothing to the US, but man to the sink, it's half empty now. So low of funds is a critical thing. And when you're in emerging markets in particular, you know, don't fight the flow. Those are the things that I took away anything you would add to that.

Terri Spath 26:19
No, I love that analogy, though, about the bathroom sink. I mean, I think that makes it really easy to understand. And it's, it's a much more memorable way of telling what I think I was trying to make a point of which is just that, you know, you can just be wrong, you know, sometimes you're just wrong, and you could thump your chest and march around for years and be wrong. So you know, just just, I don't know if it's get out of the tub, get in the sink or something, but it's that flow of funds isis can be driving that. And that can be you know, you can be right all day long. But if the flow is not going in your favor, you know, you're not doing yourself any favors.

Andrew Stotz 27:00
So let's think about a young, let's think about a young woman. Starting out in the asset management space, she gets a job at a big fun with a lot of money that they're managing. And she's got a good education and how to pick stocks and all that. And here she is listening to this podcast. And she's listening to you. So based upon what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn what's one action that you'd recommend her to take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Terri Spath 27:29
One action, can I can it be a three word action, I guess it's consistency, consistency, consistency, it's kind of like you hear Location, location, location for real estate, it kind of flows off your tongue a little bit better. But it's consistency, consistency, consistency when it comes to investing. And so you know, it's easy for me to kind of spout to you to this, this person that we've sort of put out there. But you know, making sure that you have the discipline, it's one thing to say, Okay, this is what my cell does, is going to be but like you said, you've built in some of these protections through stop losses, or through selling half of a position at a certain level. And I think that that's a great takeaway, and a great lesson for anyone listening, it's what we do for our clients is we make sure that we're protecting on the downside, we want to make sure that you don't lose unnecessarily because it can cause people to make really poor decisions, that's what happens is then you and you start when you have like the tidal wave event, the Black Swan, whatever it is that comes in, and just smacks the whole market and everyone's account balances. That's when people just start making really poor moves and poor decisions. And they, even if they hire an advisor that can pressure the advisor to make a bad decision. So we try to do at our firm, I mean, one of the things we do specialize, and I'm glad you used to women in your example, is we do focus on women and wealth. I mean, women tend to a lot, what a lot of the research shows is have a little bit of an investment gap, meaning they hold too much cash, they're worried about losing money, they don't want to lose money, so they hold too much cash, they end up not making as much on the upside. They hear so many friends finally, you know, put some money to work and then and then get hit. Because there's no cell discipline in place. So I guess if there's one action for this hypothetical person who might be listening, or anybody that's out there, it's just to have a consistent, you know, for most people to sell discipline, most people are better at buying and selling. So making sure that you have that in place and sticking to it and sticking to that discipline because I think that can be as much of a challenge as actually coming up with what the actual rules are that you're going to follow. Whether it's a technical and absolute you know, if I lose this much or I make this much or an RSI number a lot of technicals are what we use we have a lot of it on our website at Zoomer wealth.com What the actual discipline is that we use, and we're happy to share that because the hard part is often actually executing on that discipline on a daily basis.

Andrew Stotz 30:00
So that kind of goes into our next question, which is, what's the resource of your firm's or any others that you'd like to recommend?

Terri Spath 30:08
Well, I guess a resource, we have tons of information on our website at zoom a wealth.com, how we work with people, I mean, what we really do, what we really work with clients to do is to make sure that they're participating the upside of the market, but also not losing too much, then losing so much that it like changes what day they're going to retire, or what year they're going to retire, or just throws them completely out of the market, which, you know, happened with people last year. I mean, we thought it was tough year in the US emerging markets, I mean, you know, down even down even more, so the resources that we have, again, they're on our website at zoom a wealth.com. We're very open with our investment strategy is what our discipline is I've done in the markets, you know, as you mentioned, and kindly mentioned, at the beginning, for over 25 years. You know, I've been in all the strong markets, I've been in the weak ones, I've worked with great investors, I've worked with poor ones, and it you know what it does, what I love about this, and I'll finish with this thought is, what I love about this podcast is you learn a lot more, and when you make mistakes, it's really good to reflect on those mistakes that you make. And so you know, that was something I learned fairly early in my career, one of the biggest ones was I didn't know when to sell stuff, I didn't know when to get out the way I didn't know how to protect the profits that I had. And, you know, we go into that with a lot of detail again, on our website is super wealth and talking about it with people like you.

Andrew Stotz 31:27
Great. For the listeners and the viewers out there, I'll have the link in the show notes, Zoomer wealth.com. In addition, for young women out there that are looking for inspiration for building their careers in finance, I know you got some women in wealth, you know, blogs, and you, you yourself, have built quite a career. So you know, there's an opportunity to learn and maybe to reach out and get encouragement and support. So last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Terri Spath 31:55
Oh, my gosh, I number one low buy low sell high goal. I think that's just what we, but really, I mean, in all seriousness, I mean, a number one goal right now is to is to make sure and motivate and educate people on how to invest properly. And I think that you know, there's a big fear right now about losing money. And lots of people never get into the market because they're afraid of losing money that kind of comes with the territory. But if you have a good buy discipline, you have great self discipline, you could figure out how to make money in your sleep,

Andrew Stotz 32:27
which I love to do. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. Remember, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. If you haven't yet joined that mission, just go to my worst investment ever.com and join my free weekly become a better investor newsletter to reduce risk in your life. As we conclude, Terry, I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of a Stotz Academy I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Terri Spath 33:01
Well, again, don't hold too much cash. Don't be afraid of losing money. stay disciplined and keep listening to these Worst Mistakes ever. So you don't have to make the same mistakes. It's a great podcast, Andrew, thanks for having me on.

Andrew Stotz 33:14
We appreciate it. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast Jose Andrews, Don saying. I'll see you on the upside.