Ep600: Mathew Frederick – Look Beyond the Surface When Buying Property

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello, fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk, but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. And that mission has led me to create the become a better investor community. In the community, you get access to our global asset allocation strategies and stock portfolios and our institutional grade Investment Research weekly live sessions and the risk reduction lessons I've learned from more than 500 guests go to my worst investment ever.com right now to claim your 50% lifetime discount exclusive. For podcast listeners, fellow risk takers, this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests. Matthew Frederick, Matthew, are you ready to join the mission? I am ready. Well, for the audience out there. You may recognize Matthew, he was episode 181, which was all the way back in the beginning of 2020. In fact, think about that, Matthew, it was before COVID Hit it was January of 19. of 2020. We're just cruising along. And oh, don't worry. Yeah. And that's why when you said that you wanted to come back on and share. I thought it would be a great idea. So let me just introduce you briefly to the to the listeners Hold on one second. So Matthew Frederick specializes in finding and securing under contract, off market, multifamily and office buildings for conversion to their highest best use, he did not plan to be an investor. But his police brother convinced him to under gunpoint. So he decided to try. With 34 years of experience in residential and commercial and new development, Matthew has seen much chaos in the industry. And we'd like to guide others through the landmines. He loves the lifestyle that investing affords him, but he's excited to help others reach their financial freedom. Michael, take a minute and tell us a little bit more about the unique value that you bring to this world.

Mathew Frederick 02:25
Well, as I, as I mentioned, you know, my background was more I was in the military computer systems was my thing. I was a teacher and my brother came to be his police officer and said, I want you to invest because I'm a Systems guy. And I thought, No, I'm already a teacher invested all my time in this. He says, I'm the older brother, I got a gun, you better listen, and you know what he pulled me into it. And it's been amazing. Because, you know, I'm able to do the things I want to do today. Now I'm 57 years old. So I've been investing since I was I mean, my first house was 19. But it wasn't really an investor to my brother pulled me into it at about 2425 years. So I've been investing for 30 something years now. And, you know, today people are looking at high interest, like 6% scary, you know, what I was born in 6%, it was pretty much that way. For most of my life, you know, property is appreciated, 5% not, you know, 10 15% 17%. So it's been pretty interesting, you know, looking at all the people coming into the game and doing really great. And so now I want to make sure that they can hold the course, right, because things are a little bit tougher. And I know that in my history, in the toughest times, I've always advanced more. So I'm looking to help people do that as well. Same as Yeah,

Andrew Stotz 03:39
yeah, it's interesting. I mean, we're, we were born in the same year 1965, which basically means that we were kind of coming to awareness during the time when inflation was really starting to rise. And let's say, you know, 1974 Okay, we were still pretty young, not putting it all together, but by 1979, the RAND crisis and what was going on and, you know, interest rates were super high. Then Alan Greenspan came in, and, you know, all those things, and I can remember, you know, lineups at gas stations, you know, when my parents weren't filling up and stuff like that. And it's interesting that many people that were born after us never experienced that. I mean, what an amazing like four decades of low inflation.

04:26
Wow, it's amazing.

Andrew Stotz 04:29
So, anyways, well, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And I think we're gonna get two bites at the cherry to hear your newest story. And since no one goes into their worst investment, thinking it will be. Tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it, then tell us your story.

Mathew Frederick 04:48
Well, you know, back on the first episode, I talked about my worst residential nightmare buying five houses at a distance with the wrong partner. This happened done number of years later, but it was my first bite at the apple for commercial property. So I'm talking about sort like a strip Plaza concept. And you know what? I just figured, guess what, I'm really good at residential. I mean, I fought hard to learn residential. And I put a lot of years into it. And I just figured, you know, by 2004 2005, I'm just gonna go to commercial. And you know what, it's just a bigger apple. And I had that attitude about it that I was good at what I was doing. It's just a bigger apple. And I took a bite of that thing. And I realized, you know, what, I'm not so smart. It's not that exact same thing. And maybe I needed some help. And, you know, I realized I was flying too close to the sun, my wings got burned. And yeah, I hit the ground pretty hard. And I hit the ground pretty hard for many, many years. So even though I had success after that, it was the one property that even when I became an expert, I mean, years later, I've built over 280 houses, I've built four storey 50 unit condo buildings, that's hard. But even when I was doing that, that building, still kicked my butt from day one, as a commercial investor, all the way to the end until I finally got rid of it, like that building, beat me, it just kept coming back. And I have I've had a lot of reflection on it to understand what really happens. But in the end, I sold it right. So I couldn't win. Sometimes you have to give up, right?

Andrew Stotz 06:33
So tell us about that building?

Mathew Frederick 06:36
Well, you know what it was, I would drive by the building. It was vacant, it was abandoned. And I thought, you know, what thing's probably worth about is $1,000. Of course, commercial real estate is valued based on the income coming in. And there was no income coming in. But I figured you know what, it still had a value in that range. And I talked to the owners, and I convinced them to instead of going for $100,000, what they were asking, I got down to about 680,000. So I thought that I'm good at this. And then on top of it all, I got a vendor take back mortgage VTB where the seller was going to carry a mortgage to hold the mortgage. And it was 680. It was 680,000. I put down 180,000, they held a mortgage for half a million. So there was no bank involved at all. And I thought, Man, I just convinced these guys to hold a mortgage for seven years at a good interest rate. No bank involved. I put that $180,000 Can I get this building that's worth 100,000. And I thought this is fantastic. And so you know what, pat myself on the back and started renovating it. Now I had a number of restaurants by that time. In fact, I had Thai food restaurants. Now I'm not Thai, but my business partner in the restaurant. She's not Thai either. But we started doing Thai food restaurants in a city that nobody knew what Thai food was. Ultimately, it was doing very well, sure. But I wanted this building as the head office of my real estate company. And also I wanted to put a restaurant in there as well. And so I bought it. Now things are going great. Seven years later, the property went from 680 up to about 1.6 million. And I'm like my goodness, now I'm going to refinance it, I'm going to pull my money out, pay off the VTB of half a million. And I'm sitting on a lot of money. So that was that was called burr before it was called birth. I mean, buy, renovate, rent refinance, right? Repeat. The problem was when I bought it, I didn't get a phase one environmental. My lawyer asked me about it. And I said, Well, I had to get a stormwater management assessment because I wanted the variance to allow a restaurant to be there. And I said, it says the same thing. But you know, he didn't fight me on it. And my attitude was, you know, I know what I'm doing. Well, guess what, seven years later, when we went to refinance the building to get a bank mortgage in which the bank required to Phase One environmental. And then a phase two environmental because it was discovered that 50 years before I was born, there were gas stations there, lots of pollution. So that phase one ended up being a phase two where they had to come on in and do all the studies. And then they had to figure out how to remediate a phase three, let's say the cleanup. And I'm going to tell you, I spent about $400,000 cleaning up the mess on that property. Things that happened way before I was born. And what I didn't do was a phase one environmental and had I gone to a bank. They would have demanded that right away and the sellers knew it. That's why they gave me that The VTV it wasn't my genius negotiation, they just said, here's a sucker, we're gonna hold that mortgage for him because he's gonna go to a bank and nobody in the world is gonna get this. And literally, I bought this property. And now I want to test them right now when it comes to remediation, I'm an expert, because everything that could go wrong went wrong. I'm talking, I found underground storage tanks of, you know, a fuel. At the same time. You know, it was a ravine it backed onto a ravine. And that ravine went down to the stream. And the Conservation Authority, were really, really upset that this property could be polluting, that ravine going down to that stream. So I had the Conservation Authority. I was right beside CN Rail. I have a railroad, I couldn't expand the property the way I wanted to, because there were certain issues because those wrapped by railroad, and member railroads also, sometimes they spill, a spill. So this environmental there, and again, you have to be so far away from them. I was on the other side of a highway. So now I had the Ministry of Transportation, they would have to Okay, anything that I did, and then I was on a regional road. So now I'm dealing with the region, not the city, regional road, that's a second tier government dealing with Minister of Transportation, dealing with CN Rail, dealing with the Conservation Authority, dealing with pollution. And it was just at the end of the city, so I wasn't getting the business that I wanted. Because I saw it as hey, I'm going to control the gate of the city. This is the first business going into the city. So I saw it as the gate. Everyone saw it as the bud. Big difference. So it's all about how you see something. And I was seeing things with rosy eyes, right? And I'm saying to myself seven years later, how the hell did I end up having to deal with the CN Rail having to deal with the conservation authority having to deal with a Highway Act, having to deal with a regional road having to deal with pollution having to deal with I'm at the end of the city that nobody enters. And I'm sitting there thinking, How did I do this? You know? And obviously, I've come to some realizations.

Andrew Stotz 12:21
But before we get to those realizations, maybe you can just explain how did it end?

Mathew Frederick 12:28
Okay, so about four years ago, have the property that had appraised out to about 2.1 million. So it went from the 680 up to the 2.1 million. And that's a good news. Because even when you make a mistake, sometimes most times your real estate, if enough time goes by, there is healing, because the property did go up to about $2.1 million, right? You know, but the thing is, I wanted to develop the land to get that value. And in the end, the setbacks, meaning the setback from the ravine, instead of it being let's say, 10 feet, was 15 meters. And the setback from the road was about 10 meters. So I can build a new building. The problem is the building would be six feet wide. Right? You know. So even though the appraiser appraised that for what it was, the true value to get to its highest best use would be two because it was two acres would be to build on the unused land. Right. And therefore, I couldn't build on that land. And in the end, that 2.1 ended up being about maybe 1.7 1.8. So I mean, yes, it's sold. And that's great news. But again, there was a lot of pain along the way. A lot of lessons along the way.

Andrew Stotz 13:51
And when you finally sold it, I mean, I guess for the buyer, it was de-risked.

Mathew Frederick 13:58
Yes, I took care of pretty much all the risks, and the buyer knew what they were buying. And it just happened to be something that they required. And to them $1.7 million was what they required. It's sort of, let's say, match their needs, not 2.1

Andrew Stotz 14:16
might know. And when you when you add it all up, did you lose on the deal that you break even How did it go? Well, the way I figure

Mathew Frederick 14:26
it, you know, my seven year VTB because I couldn't refinance out that VTB with another five years. So the owners were kind enough to extend my VTB saying they didn't know the land was polluted.

Andrew Stotz 14:43
How could we know?

Mathew Frederick 14:45
How could they know? And then finally, he said, Well, you know, buyer beware, right? In the end, I probably would have said out of my pocket to do everything. I can everything, fix everything. I'm probably $1.4 million out of my pocket. Not 1.7. So yes, there is a profit. I'll get into some right now, I own or control over 27 buildings and I say owner control because I have JV partnerships, right? Where I don't have the properties in my name. But the JV agreement gives me control of the equity, the cash flow and things like that, right? What are the 27, let's say multifamily or commercial buildings that I owned, I'm going to tell you, I learned probably 85% of all that I know about commercial real estate from this one building. It's like having three kids and one bad kid. And you are not defined as a parent based on your two easiest children are defined as a parent, and how you handle that one rascal.

Andrew Stotz 15:47
Yeah, let's help you get that bad one. First. In my family's case, the bad one me came last. So my parents had it easy with my sisters. But when they got me, oh, my God, they weren't prepared for what was coming. So how would you describe the lessons that you learned from this particular experience?

Mathew Frederick 16:05
Well, okay, lesson number one, I realize what happened, you know how we have peaks, right? We have peaks, mountaintops, when you have success, it's a mountaintop, then you have the value in between, to the next peak, I went from residential peak, thinking, I could just jump across to the next peak success in residential, and I had a lot of properties met, I would still be in the top of the mountain of commercial, and it didn't realize it was a valley. So therefore, I dropped down in the valley for a number of years, to actually learn how to do commercial correctly, I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a coaching program I didn't have a community to work with. So therefore, I was pretty much on my own. And at the same time, I had to do a minor adjustment of my ego and my humility. I needed to rebalance my ego. We bounced my humility a little bit, right.

Andrew Stotz 16:58
Yeah. The market kind of did that for you.

Mathew Frederick 17:02
Yes, yes. So ultimately, I mean, I gotta tell you, I learned every aspect of cleaning up property. When you spend over 4000 hours to clean property, you actually learn everything, because everything that can go wrong went wrong. I've actually made and saved money because of that. So I mean, I've built 113 House subdivision, my knowledge, and that the, the strength that I had to survive this calamity, helped me to face tougher problems in the future. And things that would cause someone to cry or break, I didn't break, because this was pretty tough, right? Number one. Number two, I found that no matter what I did with this property, I was always losing money. I had a tenant that came in, and they tend to not pay their rent on time, he did a haul, a huge series of things, even though it was commercial, did a huge series of things that, you know, I pretty much picked the person who is going at a different speed. So I met somebody when I was relaxed. And they were actually on top of the hill, meaning they were working at full speed. And I brought this company in. And when I went up to full speed, I realized that my full speed was way faster than their full speed. And we couldn't work together. And that's kind of weird. But you know, when you meet people, and you want to partner with them, make sure that you're actually at the same speed when you actually decide to partner because I was just coasting. I didn't realize he was at his top speed. When it comes to my top speed. Well, I was way too fast. And that created a lot of problems. And I had to deal with that. So that was a bit of an issue there that I had to go through with. Another thing too is and this is weird. I remember a lady drove by. And she was crying. She came to you know, she says, Are you the owner, I go, I'm the owner. She goes, this building is making me cry. Now, obviously, I have my beliefs. But I'm not into too much hocus pocus stuff, you know, but I'm a man of faith. I have my beliefs. But she goes, I'm crying. I'm feeling so much pain. So much pain right? Now remember, this is like 10 or 12 years into this thing.

Andrew Stotz 19:19
I go lady said lady Do you imagine the pain? I'm feeling?

Mathew Frederick 19:23
A lady you're feeling my pain? She goes, No, no, this is a deep pain. It's an old pain. What do you mean all pain? She goes, it's been a pain on this land for seemed like a couple 100 years. I'm thinking you feel pain? She goes yeah, it's deep, very deep. So she took something out of a car. And she lived on fire. And she she smashed the place. I think she called it smashing smooshing or something. I like to do it anyway. But the fact is, it occurred to me that I'm not just dealing with the math here. I'm not just dealing with the situation. I'm not dealing with my stupidity. You know, I'm dealing with something a little bit bigger or stranger than I had ever seen before. So some of your listeners are thinking he's nuts. But guess what, I have a computer systems background. I'm gonna soldier, you know, I'm very technical. But everything that can go wrong, even out of my control just kept going wrong. And when she told me the building is suffering, it's torture. And I'm like, You know what, it's time to give up this fight. Surrender, put my hands up. Because the bottom line was, I didn't want this building to beat me. Now, I'm like, There's no way in hell, this building is beating me. I'm getting stronger, smarter, faster, more educated. And I'm still getting clocked. So it was like, I'm not gonna beat me. But then I realized, you know what, I'm dealing with something outside of all my stupidity. I'm dealing with some powers here. And I just thought, Okay, I'm gonna sell it. And yeah, I sold it.

Andrew Stotz 21:09
Wow. When you put it on the market, how long did it take before he sold it?

Mathew Frederick 21:14
About two years? Okay. Because every, every person that came to it, found a reason why they wouldn't buy it. So ultimately, deals kept falling through had about maybe six deals fall through before it finally sold. And in fact, I had a guy who did assignment of contract who did wholesaling. So he found the person to buy it. You know, I made sure I provided all the information. And even I told the buyer, you know what, I think there's some weird stuff going on with this property. And he's like, Well, I don't believe in that stuff. I go, Okay, I just want you to know, I told you, because I don't think I would feel good. And you know, sometimes they're richer somebody gets, sometimes they don't care about the other person. They just don't care. It's like, I want to make money. I don't care about the other person. Well, I care. And I didn't want to leave somebody behind. So I made sure I said to the guy, here are all my problems. Here's all the things that I fixed. And here's the issue that I couldn't beat this thing. And he says, You know what, I can beat it. So I'm like, okay, so he actually took on my, my, you know, white whale, right? Yeah, he became Captain Ahab. Yep. And you know what, he renovated the place beautifully. He has a beautiful store there. And nobody comes in and buys his furniture.

Andrew Stotz 22:42
Interesting. Well, let me share, I've written down a lot of things that you were talking, and I want to share some of them. The first one, I want to share a story about a friend of mine, Pat, and Pat basically was a client and I was working with him to value is business and then help him sell that business. And we did eventually sell the business to Microsoft, which was a really exciting time, and deal. And but Pat was an interesting guy, because when I started working with him, he would start yelling at me at times, which was very strange, because, you know, I mean, people used to yell at me. And I couldn't really figure it out until I started observing. And I started realizing that, you know, part of it was that he was kind of testing me and testing a lot of things. But eventually, I had to tell him, and I remember sitting down with him, and I said, Look, if I bring you ideas that you already know, I'm no value to you. And if I bring you advice that you agree with, I'm no value to you. So the only time that I am valuable to you, is when I'm bringing you an idea that you are not familiar with, or you disagree with. Now, that idea may be right or wrong. But the value comes in me telling you directly what my idea is about this particular thing. And that's when I really realized the value of a consultant and advisor. And I remember that I have had a recently I had a client, and they just really, really wanted me to say what they wanted me to say. Yeah. And it just gave them much more comfort. And in the end, I ended the contract, because it's not where I add the value. It's, you know, advising is not a love fest. And so it just made me think about your lawyer that you said said, Hey, wait a minute about this. And then yeah, oh, no, I got a reason why or maybe an argument is added in this case with Pat So that's the first thing. The second thing I was asking I was thinking about is like, you know, from, from a perspective of doing any deal. You know, I was thinking that, you know, there's some requirements for full disclosure, there's some fraud or deceit that could happen in a deal. And that's the importance of due diligence. And due diligence is a process. And here, they got you to skip one part of that process for what seemed like a very beneficial part of the deal, but it reminded me and I wrote down, there is no free lunch, everything, cost, everything I love what Thomas soul says, which is there are no solutions, only trade offs. And then then you mentioned about peak versus Valley. And I was thinking about, you know, when we think about when we think about peaks, we think about the positive things. And this is, this is the this is the solution, the answer. But actually, it's the opposite the solution and the answer come in the valley. The valley is the time of correction. Yes. And part of the one big problem in America, I believe, now with the Fed and the government is that, basically, people don't want to go if they have any governmental tool that can prevent the economy and businesses and everybody from going through the valley, they're going to do everything they can. But from a learning systems perspective, we need value valleys. Now, another thing I wrote down and said, you know, and you started making me think about, you know, the history of this land, the history of this building, and, and then I just started thinking, Yeah, you know, in fact, when we're dealing with people, too, we're dealing with a collection of history, a family history, a collection of values, a collection of things that have been passed down over generations. So for the listeners and viewers out there, look beyond just the surface, and then I wrote down, surrendered a win. And one of the things I think that we learned as we get older is that there are some fights that we do not need to be in zoning, the fights to walk away from is, you know, very critical. In Thailand, when I, when I was younger, I used to go out at night to bars and stuff, although I don't drink, you know, I enjoyed that I was out with friends. But as soon as anything happens in a bar, or in, you know, a place, the first thing I'm out, I'm out the back door. I'm out. Because, you know, anything can happen. And so I'm happy to just say, Oh, well, I'm out. And the last thing I just wrote down is that eventually, you can win. Yes, you know, and that's this is actually a story that you stuck with it, you kept dealing with the things that came to you, but eventually, you won. Now you won through what you learned, you won through, you know, getting a soul, but there's a lot of things I take away from anything that you would add.

Mathew Frederick 28:19
Yeah, and you know, it really made me strong enough to deal with some of the bigger properties that I had to buy later on. You know, it meant that I had to balance myself, even when I felt as though I was being attacked from seven sides. And yes, I may have initiated those attacks on myself. But the fact is, I was able to still sleep easy in the storm. Later on, when I started buying more buildings and doing better. My success in those areas came from the strength. But I could actually sleep in the midst of the thunder in the midst of the storm in the waters rising, but I was still okay about it. Because I was challenged so hard. And I put a lot of physical energy into this as well. It wasn't just a mental thing. I literally to save money. I literally did a lot of physical work on the property. But I really cut my teeth on it. And I learned a lot. So in the end, it was a very big mistake. The good news is all the things that you mentioned, I actually learned and then on top of it all, it gave me the strength to be able to weather the storm, or other things that I had to look at. And also, I learned a bit of humility. Because sometimes when you're just everything you touch turns to gold space shuttle, so 25 times, then the rocket booster blew up. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes if you're just doing things, it's always working. It doesn't mean everything you've you're doing is correct. And this sort of taught me that lesson. I had to double check.

Andrew Stotz 29:54
So based on what you learned from this story and what you continue to learn what one action you know, Let's go back to yourself as you approach that land, what one action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Mathew Frederick 30:09
Well, I should have listened to my lawyer, I should have done a phase one environmental, which is required by the bank anyway. And it was more that somebody had told me about a phase one, this has been a cost about $2,000. And I didn't want to pay it. I just thought, you know, I just paid for stormwater management assessment. And I have to create a swale, which is something that has to do with water, redirecting the water, and I was upset paying that. And it was slowing me down, it was slowing me down. And I wanted to rush the deal, because I didn't want to lose this great opportunity, I should have taken off the glasses and realize this place is a warzone, no one's gonna buy it. I was just excited about it. And, you know, I really learned how not to be excited about property. So care, but not that much, right. And remember, these are cows or farm animals that you care for, but don't fall in love with the current farm animals. Right? I would say that's pretty much what I learned.

Andrew Stotz 31:08
So what is a resource of yours that you'd recommend for our listeners?

Mathew Frederick 31:16
Well, I mean, ultimately, I tend to spend time, you know, looking at my own life, and trying to, you know, Spot lessons. So first and foremost, books are great. Look, you know, joining communities are great getting a membership, you have a membership, but I'm gonna sign up for I think it's a fantastic membership. So it's good to do things like that. But at the same time, you sit back and think, what's one lesson I learned in my first sport, or my my first job, or if you lead about 15, or 20, or 30 lessons in your life? And then you really ponder and think about those lessons. I think, really, if you can break them down into a three minute story, you can pretty much use them to help convince others to invest with you. If it's a bad news thing, I always have a redemption. So even with this situation, sure, it was terrible. But guess what I learned how to evaluate property. I learned how to clean property, and I learned how to get proper financing. I learned a lot from it. So bad news, always with redemption. So I think a good resources even within yourself, try to look at why you do what you do. And document it for yourself and for your kids.

Andrew Stotz 32:32
Great. All right. Last question, what is your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Mathew Frederick 32:39
Well, so now, technically, I'm semi retired. And, you know, I'm moving from I will say this to, you know, I grew up as an immigrant in Canada, I came from Trinidad and Tobago, back in the 70s being a different color, it wasn't the easiest thing. And, you know, everybody has their own issues doesn't matter about color, you can be too tall, too short, whatever. The fact is, people didn't think I would succeed. So I used that as a fuel. By the time I was 24, to 34. But by that time, feeling like a second class citizen, I didn't anymore, that fuel burnt up, that I had to find another fuel. So then all of a sudden, I thought I want nice things. So I started buying nice things. And I wanted to have a nice house and just different things. And from 34 to about 44. That was great. But you know, you buy a very expensive car, and hey, guess what he wants the next model. So after a while that fuel burns down to my daughter came along when I was 44. So she's like 15 now, right? You know. So from 44 to 54, it was really I just want to be a better man, my little girl, I want to provide a great world for her. And now things are going pretty good with her that she was burnt up. Always be that a provider. Now I'm looking for something external outside of me. So I'm looking more for community. So over the next 12 months, I'm going to focus on water bringing water to North America using water for some purpose. I don't know what it is yet, but the beauty is I will walk the walk to understand what water and I have to do. But the important part is people think sometimes one one goal will get you there. You know, like Paul was talking about you know, What's your why will you Why is going to the moon and maybe real estate might be your vehicle, but what the hell is your fuel? I had to change my fuel three times. Right? So ultimately, somebody with water, I'm not sure what it is. I just know it's water. And I'm looking forward to learning what it's gonna be that's gonna be my fuel for the next 10 years and drink it. Exactly.

Andrew Stotz 34:46
Well, listeners there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't joined the become a better investor community just go to my worst investment ever.com right now to claim your 50% lifetime discount exclusive for podcast the listeners. As we conclude, Matthew, I want to thank you again for joining our mission a second time and sharing your knowledge. And on behalf of A. Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status a second time for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Mathew Frederick 35:20
Well, I think this is your 600th episode. Yep. So I am honored, humbled to have you accept me as that person on this episode. I think it'll make a difference for folks out there.

Andrew Stotz 35:38
Fantastic. We appreciate it. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more story to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast hose Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.