Ep566: Justin Cunningham – Face Your Fears and Show Up

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lines to reduce risk in your life, go to my worst investment ever.com. Today and take the risk reduction assessment I created from the lessons I've learned from more than 500 guests. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests, Justin Cunningham. Justin, are you ready to join the mission?

Justin Cunningham 00:41
I'm so ready. Andrew, thank you so much. What an introduction. Wow, it gets

Andrew Stotz 00:46
better, it gets better. Because I'm going to tell the audience about you, Justin Cunningham helps thought leader business owners make simple changes to radically grow profits through standing out, creating transformative content and offers and optimizing effectiveness. Wow, Justin, take a minute and fill in for us a little bit about the value that you're bringing to this world through that business.

Justin Cunningham 01:14
I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much, Andrew. So long story short, I see a lot of business owners suffering with some antiquated ideas about how to achieve results. And, you know, ideas like modeling others is going to lead to your success, you know, goal setting, and all sorts of things and the statistics and the numbers just completely go against all that stuff. University of Scranton says goal setting has an 8% success rate. You know, Ebbinghaus curve says you will forget 90% of what you learn in 30 days, Anthony Robbins has said, Well, my students have us that six to 8% success rate. So when you hear those numbers that blows your mind that we've all been led into this idea that I need to learn to earn. And you know, knowledge is fuel and all this stuff. And what I've discovered is that it's just simply not true. And what happens is it feeds into all these ideas that we need to learn everything, hustle harder work harder than the next guy. And that suffering is normal. And what I've discovered is that most people don't know their superpower. They don't know how they can communicate to the world, how they stand out. I come from a background of being an international music performer, a top five skateboarder. I've done a lot of radical things in my life. And so I've got the ability to synthesize people's magic in such a way where it forms an emotional transformative connection with people rather than this. Hi, I'm Justin, I'm a real estate agent. It's like, well, no, that doesn't work. I'm like, what do you actually do? I put families into their dream homes. Okay, we'll stop saying you're a real estate agent, because I don't want to talk to you anymore. But as soon as you said, I put families into their dream homes, now I get it. The other stuff that I really love is working on, you know, 8020 type principles and transformative deal making and helping people realize that most of the stuff that they're doing the superfluous to what they actually trying to achieve. When I do that, they work less than they get more. It's just that simple. And so those are the things that I do. I come from a background, I've been general managers of different types of businesses and be an international sales trainer with coke and Mercedes Benz and osteo, strong and all sorts of different companies. But I have this creative and this business thing going on. So I bring it all together to bring out you know, the full expression of the people that are in business, because then people feel like, well, you know, I can't really show up in my business because my business is in this box. And I help people realize no, if you actually do completely show up, you'll stand out from everybody. That whole idea was the block. So you know and again before this interview, Andrew and I had an interview had a conversation and Andrews versatility and you know, his thinking is just world class and completely intrigued by that. So that's what I do. Again, I've played around the world with the biggest pop stars in the world skateboarder been ranked the Tony Hawk and, and also worked with billion dollar companies and standing out and transforming their results. And so you know, my tagline Andrew quite simply as they helped frustrated rock stars go big. So that's how it works.

Andrew Stotz 04:48
Well, I think we got a lot of frustrated rockstars listening to this podcast, including me, I want to go bigger. I want to go bigger. Um, you reminded me of something I have a mastermind group we meet every Friday at 5pm And one of the members has a tax business, particularly US tax, which is such a mess, and particularly for expats, and you know, the the presentation of his business is pretty, you know, straightforward, typical tax business started. And I was talking to him, we were talking in the mastermind about how we frame, you know, what we do. And I was telling him the story about another friend of mine who had a tax guy that made a mistake that cost my friend, millions of dollars, but not only millions of dollars, but I mean, there's all kinds of trouble you can get in with the IRS, if you don't do exactly what they say, and you don't have any rights with the US, IRS, they're just going to nail you. And that friend of mine, who has a, you know, family and all that, at one point called me and said, he just felt like killing himself, because of just trouble that he faced of so much money, you know, in this problem from the US IRS? Well, you know, luckily, he made it through it, he made the payments, and it wasn't even his fault. The mistake was made by his accountant. And I went back to my friend in the group, and I just said, you know, you're frickin saving lives. You say you're doing accounting, but I'm telling you use, if you could get this guy's accounting, right, you would have saved so much pain and suffering for his family for him, he's struggled for five years, you get tangled up with the IRS, you can be yours in it. So you need to change the way you think about it and move to an idea like, you know, I'm here to get it right, to save your marriage to save your business to save your life. And we were, you know, really looking at how reframing, you know, and I look at what you got over your shoulder, shift your results, you know, how does reframing really make a difference? So I'm just curious, what are your thoughts about, I'm not an expert in this area, that was my advice. But maybe you could just share a little bit for the audience as people need to reframe.

Justin Cunningham 06:55
That's a very intuitive hit, you just got there, Andrew, because that is one of the things I'm very, very good at is what's called Value Based refrains, which is exactly what you just said, what I'm doing is a value based reframe. And I'm trying a number of behavioral modalities as well. So I'm left and right brain so. So how that works is that and I showed this to my wife the other day, and I blew her mind, because she didn't understand the difference between this she's also a coach. And I see there's a difference between a result and an outcome. Now, you see people say, I want to increase sales. Why? Well, so I've got more money, why? What's more money going to give you this why? Now if you keep asking that you actually get to the transformation, you get to the outcome, like you just said, the result might be that my debt was paid off. But what was the outcome? I got my life back, my wife's back, my freedom back, my body back, my kids back, I got my life back. That's the outcome. That's the difference between a result and an outcome. Now, as you just said it people buy emotionally and physiologically, so if you can communicate your message like that, you know, like, forget about it, you're gonna kick down the door, people are gonna go, Look, I thought this dude was just a numbers guy. Turns out, he can show me how to win a million bucks without having a lottery ticket. And, you know, how I can, you know, half my work week, and double my profits, I had no idea that an accountant had any sort of power like that, like, that's just blowing my mind. You know, CFO can't whatever, right. And so that's, that's the thing. And then when you make these bold promises, give examples. And then, you know, like, if you're creating content for somebody, that's the way to do it, you make it you make a statement, you go, here's the example. You make a statement. Here's the example. But most people don't know, to look at the work like that. So they don't know how to create the power. That sort of evidence. A moat.

Andrew Stotz 09:13
So when you say evidence, you mean the example is the evidence of the statement?

Justin Cunningham 09:20
Yeah, like if what you just said, you know, so six months ago, I was going to in my life, six months later, you know, I can now not worry about my mortgage, my wife leaving, you know, all these different things. And I'm not sure how I can ever repay that person. Because quite honestly, it was literally and figuratively that in. Yeah, now we tell stories like that. How can you not be compelled? Yeah. And that's my point. And that's the thing about being an entertainer and a front person like I am is that, you know, people don't realize how much power or magic they hold. I mean, and you don't have to be an extrovert like me. There are so many introverts that have, you know, you've only got to look at how many billionaires are introverts? Yeah, the majority of them. And so then you look at that, and you kind of go, Whoa, if that's the case, what have they got? They've got this ability to reveal and use the insights in a transformative manner. But often, your magic is too close for you to even notice it. You've been doing it all your last a

Andrew Stotz 10:36
great point. That's a great point. I mean, I think for most people, it's funny because sometimes, just in it, I did something before where I would go on to LinkedIn, or I would go to my followers in other areas. And I'd say, on Saturday afternoon, Bangkok time, I'm opening up for 15 Minute Calls, call me about anything, here's the link book a time. And I would have people calling, I always felt like, what am I going to say, I don't know, this guy's situation, whatever. But I realized that the magic is in front of them, they most people actually know the solution to their problems. They just need someone to listen, they needed someone to talk to about it. And then they need some reinforcement to keep it in front of them to say, Hey, this is, you know, this is the real thing. So I really liked that. And that's the value of, you know, someone like yourself, that some people think, Oh, I don't need to, you know, someone like, you know, I can do it on my own, I don't need a coach or I don't need a guide, or I don't need whatever. But the fact is, is it very quickly, there's value that can be brought, you know, very quickly.

Justin Cunningham 11:37
When people don't understand ROI, you know, they think oh, well, another coach who needs another coach, like a hole on the head. And the reality is, I'm not a coach, I'm a resultant. That's a term I started using. I'm not, I'm not interested in coaching you. I'm interested in consulting you to get more results, I'm interested in a measurable change, I don't honestly care about that stuff for you. And often I can have 1015 minute conversations that generate 10s, if not hundreds of 1000s of dollars, because I shifted a belief which unlocked all of your skill in behaviors. So that is something that people often overlook. They say, I don't I need to understand this stuff. I go look at your conscious mind 90% of what's going on for you as unconscious? If you can unlock that. Watch it.

Andrew Stotz 12:31
Wow. You know, we haven't even got to the main question of the podcast. And let's dig, let's review some of the things that we've learned from you for the audience here. You talked about goal setting. You know, I hadn't heard those statistics, I've kind of vaguely remember something about it. But you talked about goal setting has like an 8% success ratio. And that was fascinating. You talked about value based reframing, you talked about what I would call the five why's asking wise, which eventually, as you said gets to your transformation. And then you talked about, you know, making a statement and having an example with the example being the evidence, you know, this is what I can do, or this is what you know, and here's the evidence. And then the last thing you just said was, I'm a resultant. Oh yeah. Love that. So already, we got a lot of value. I just wanted to highlight one last thing I wanted to get your thoughts since since I got you on there. I have a course called the valuation masterclass bootcamp, and my goal is to make it it's a six week course. My it's global course, my goal is to make it the toughest valuation course in the world and, and I just every single time I launch it, I make it tougher and more challenging. And I just keep iterating. And it's just getting better and better. We have 47 students from 12 Different countries in it right now. We're in week three, and the intensity is rising as they're starting to write the reports and do the valuations of their companies and get ready for their final presentations. And, and then I did a little exercise of coming up with taglines and I came up with five taglines within my company, you know, we were all talking about, you know, the, the course it takes you from a novice to valuation expert, you know, step by step, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I showed that to my prior group of students, and you know, they picked Okay, this one looks like it's good, but nobody repeated it. And I realized that you know, what's really great about maybe, I don't know if you could call it reframing, but just a framing something in a way, you want to reframe something in a way that it's repeated. So recently, my native students have been posting about their experience in the valuation masterclass boot camp, and they've done a hashtag called the toughest valuation course in the world. And I see that that is something that's clicking with them. And that's made me think about maybe I need to reframe, you know, I'm already trying to make it tough, but I thought it was about transformation of this and that and becoming an expert but really what they want to be able to say I made it through the book Ken, what are your thoughts about them?

Justin Cunningham 15:03
Well, you've got to clients clearly. So you've got the students that are learning the skill, and then they have to go and sell it to somebody else. And so there has to be a combination of those two things, then copywriting. Often what they'll do a sentence will be like you, you identify a goal, and then you identify a pain. So it's like, you know, discover how to, you know, valuate your company to the nth degree, without sign and so on and so forth. Right. So whatever my so how to without as a copywriting sort of secret. I reverse engineer people's product offerings by assessing fears, challenges and goals. If you sit down with a business owner, and you say, what are your top three fears, top three challenges and top three goals. And then they literally told you what to sell to them when they just revealed that. So then I saw I can reverse engineer everything back from the offer, to the presentation, to the message all the way through. And it freaks people out because I've I've I've also reverse engineered and eradicated rebuttals. I know exactly what they value. I know everything about them. Just from that, and it's amazing how fast you can do it. So that's what I would suggest that you do is go to these, think about the end client. And then again, that's possibly another a whole nother program, let's say, Okay, now that you're trained in this, how do you position this? And so for you, that's what I would do. Ask them, What are your top three fears, challenges, goals, and they will reveal all will be revealed?

Andrew Stotz 16:48
Yeah. It's interesting, because I was just thinking, Yeah, if I was doing that with someone, I would go in the opposite direction I would go goals, what are your challenges? And what are your fears? But I think you're not only a resultant, you may be a reverse engineer.

Justin Cunningham 17:02
I am the art. I don't I this is the thing that freaks people out is that I design and reverse. So I did an interview the other week with Chris Ceylon. And I sent in the whole topic was reverse success. And I'm like, Yeah, you need to think about the transformation and design backwards, not start where you are and go towards transformation. Because then you can actually identify the pitfalls and the blocks that you're going to come up against going from start to finish. But if you go from finished back to start, you know, and there's a great question that everybody should ask themselves, how can I get this wrong? Because in your mind, you can figure out pretty much every way you're going to get something wrong. And then you go cool. You then you've got this long list, and you just tick every one off that you've eradicated. And then lo and behold, your success is right in front of you. Yeah,

Andrew Stotz 17:59
it's fantastic stuff. In fact, you just mentioned about Chris, he was episode 99. Ladies and gentlemen, you can find him episode of my worst investment ever. And go to Episode 99. And listen to Chris, he talked about meditating and journaling to overcome pain of losing. Well, what a great introduction. And we're gonna come back to how people can connect with you and all that, but I want to get into the story. So now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it. And then tell us your story.

Justin Cunningham 18:32
All right. Well, it was when I was living in Melbourne, I was separated for about four months from my then wife. I was not feeling great about life. But I had a project that I was bringing to life and had been in the works for about eight months. And that was to go from Melbourne to Los Angeles and put on an event called Creative supernova. Greater supernova was really about me supporting creative entrepreneurs, so to again, create transformative outcomes. Because most creators I've come across it had to have challenges with money generally. And then how to make an impact. And the more I studied about the world, I realized that creative IP is the only thing that really can't be duplicated by AI. So I was like, right, motivated and pumped and fired up. And I had a business partner who was supporting me with the finance. And she had a lot of relationships over there. So I was like, Okay, we're going to do this. So we had about eight or nine speakers, and we had a producer of the event who was telling us Yeah, yeah, you do this and you do that and it's all gonna work out. And I was like, okay, so we started promoting from Australia, you know, as you can with the internet, and nothing was happening. No tickets were being sold at this stage. We'd already spend about 1020, probably about $30,000 and on Facebook ads and other stuff and we had to we had a meeting. And the meeting was, well, do we just earn this 30,000? Or do you go to LA, hit the ground running and try and put bums on seats and just try and make this thing work? Well, as I explained, My life wasn't in a great place at that stage from an emotional standpoint. So I was like, You know what, okay. Okay, I'm gonna go. So I went to LA, I really didn't have any support structure there. Me, myself and I seven weeks on the ground hustling. And I managed to put, you know, about 90 people in the room, which an ally the most competitive coaching space in the world, is well from, again, from feedback from others, they will say, I don't know how you did that. That's, that's really, really hard. And so we did it. But I spent so much time hustling, getting it ready, that I am believing what our producer and other people that said about, you know, just to your presentation like this, and you know, it's America, people invest that, you know, you'd be right. And I totally blew it. You know, because I was trying to do too much I had, I had to, you know, manage the speakers because there were eight other speakers from around the world. And pull down from buy one give one and Frank Shankar Wirtz from Make a wish. And, you know, very, you know, there's a big players, you know, Steve AllShare. And from New Media Summit, there were a lot of big players. And I was out of my depth. And I was wearing too many hats, which is a very New Zealand way of doing things. We have a strong DIY culture here, because we're such a small country. And that seems meritorious. Until you try start reading things on scale. And this was the big lesson for me that whilst I was a renaissance man, multitalented, multiskilled, I basically was just burned out. Now, not only that, but a week before the event, my stepfather passed away, and I couldn't make it back to New Zealand for the funeral. And the week before that, my dog had died. And my ex, my, my, you know, again, my ex wife was on the phone, as the dog was dying. So I had to deal with the grief of my dog, the grief of my stepfather, and then the grief of government to this event, and realizing that I didn't really know what I was doing in terms of selling from stage, even though I'd been a sales trainer and had all the success. And that I was out of my depth. Now, so that ended up costing about, I don't know, 100 $110,000 all accounted. And, you know, I was just lucky that I had a relationship with the finance woman, and you know, she was paying for the bills, and but the reality was, I lost a lot to, you know, cost me a lot. And I have money invested and all gone. Yeah.

Andrew Stotz 23:23
So how would you? How would you summarize? Let's go back. I mean, you've already mentioned some of the lessons that you got, but I really for the audience's sake, because I think about a lot of people that are faced with the challenge number one, they're faced with a choice and like, Okay, this isn't working the way I thought I gotta double down, or do I run away? Or what do I do? And I just want you to summarize specifically the lessons that you took from it.

Justin Cunningham 23:46
Well, there's two sides to this coin. So I'll tell you the negative and I'll tell you the positive. Yes. So the negative was, of course, that relationship with my finance person completely broke to pieces. And that was difficult, that was very difficult to manage. Because she did actually come back at me and say, hey, I want you to pay for this, this nurse. And I was like, Well, I'm not in a position to do that. So that was very disturbing, because she had put faith in me and I put faith in her. And so that was very difficult to deal with. And we had a lot of similar relationships. And so as you know, you know, these things, you know, you start worrying about how you're being perceived. So that was really hard. And also, then you're also kind of like, well, what's next? You know, like, I've thrown everything into this now one, and as you could hear, I wasn't exactly in a great state before that a bit. Yeah. Now, the flip side, I got offered a TV deal from being there, because everybody saw that the event itself was very innovative. We had breathwork and music and speakers and all sorts of stuff because I come from a background of being an attached person. Omar I knew that these events were kind of pretty averaged away, they were done generally. And I was like, I know, I can drag something that's, that will rock the party. And that was the case. And I also met my now wife,

Andrew Stotz 25:16
I was thinking, I was thinking that it's common, because you didn't ask me before that your wife was American, okay? You gain something out of that.

Justin Cunningham 25:24
And, and honestly, I formed a lot of relationships with people because I showed up. So whilst I lost money, I showed up, I faced my fear, I was stood the storm, and the benefits far outweigh the loss. Yep. You know, and I mean, look, honestly, you know, four years later, I'm sitting in a, you know, $1.6 million house traveling a European car with an American wife, and I'm back in New Zealand and, and things turned around. And, and again, so there was a lot of good things that came out of that. And, but it just also really was, you know, I got thrown in the deep end, I did it to myself, it's not I've been doing it all my life. And most of the time, that works to me. I mean, and whilst you can say, Okay, you lost a lot of money, you were naive, you were this, you were there. When this fear, it's near. Yeah, whatever it is. And, you know, and I also out of those experiences, I also realized things like people say, you know, luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And what I really discovered was luck is when passion meets opportunity. And, and that is something that I have taken into everything since and it's it's, it's worked for me tenfold

Andrew Stotz 26:54
now, and maybe I'll just share a couple of things. I mean, I've already shared some of the stuff I've taken from talking with you. But I was thinking about, what I wrote down was one of the things I wrote down was just looking at my notes, like, try to do too much. You know, and I want the listeners out there to think about it. You know, we all try to do too much at times. And so you just really need to be careful. I mean, in this case, as Justin's explaining made it through, okay, he lost lots on the negative side, there was lost, but then he gained a lot. But I just think also, for every person that makes it through and gets on a podcast like this, there are some others that are broken by it. So for the listeners out there, just be careful, because the other thing that you mentioned was burnout. And it is a very real thing. And so for everybody out there, manage that. And the last thing I took away this is this doesn't really I don't know why this hit me. But it you talked about breathwork. And you made me realize it okay, I have a lady that comes in does yoga with me, and teaches me yoga. And the first thing we do is breath work. And I just always feel like that, like sets the stage that like that, that separates the rest of the world. From this moment. It's the dividing lines, like we're crossing this bridge, and on the other side is a different experience. And, you know, I was thinking about even incorporating that in my online class. And thinking about breath work by starting off because we start online class, we do a live session every night from six to 7pm. And what I do is I say, Okay, everybody who's got a story to tell, and I get people to tell stories of what's happening in their daily life. And that definitely connects us but the idea of just doing breath work for a minute, is a way of reframing, you know, the situation. So it's a little bit of an odd thing to take from this because there's a lot of other valuable lessons. But given that you know about this stuff, that's something that I took from it, anything that you would add to that.

Justin Cunningham 28:50
Yeah, well, I think breath is really important to remember to be present and to remember that the, the actual payoff is the experience. I mean, I met some of the biggest thought leaders in the world, though I all have relationships with them now. You know, I put on events now I'm reaching out to some of the biggest players on the planet earth, all because they showed up for this thing. Now, you can't buy that, you know, that's not something you can just kind of spend and get it. It doesn't really work like that. And, and, you know, when you're breathing, you remember that your perception? You know, there's a saying in NLP it says, you know, your map is not the territory. And what it refers to is that whatever's happened for you, or whatever, what you think is going well or not. That's just your map. It's not actually the territory. So at this stage, you might feel like, Oh, well, I'm a loser. Okay, well, you lost but that doesn't mean you're a loser. You are not defined by your outcomes. You know, and, and it's like, you know, where your attention goes. As your energy flows, and so if you can look at all the things that you've gotten that you're grateful for, then you can refuel your tank. And as entrepreneurs, we have to constantly focus on that. Because so often, people are making withdrawals from our emotional bank account. And we have to remember to make deposits. And that keeps us personally and professionally, moving forward.

Andrew Stotz 30:25
The map ideas interesting, I've read 50 books on the US Civil War, it's just a fascinating topic to me. And that was in the days when mapmaking wasn't nearly as precise as it is today. And there was many battles that were lost because of a misinterpretation of the territory coming from a map that was just drawn by a person that was trying to visualize the environment, but didn't get it right. And that could just be that sometimes in life, we're failing, because the map that we've drawn of the territory is just wrong. It just not the territory. So let me ask you, based upon what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn, what action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Justin Cunningham 31:10
Oh, that's a very good question. And, you know, upon contemplation of that, I would say, if you're afraid, good, do it. That's good. Because, honestly, you know, fear, like I said, if there's fear, it's near and in the body, you know, fear and excitement manifests the same way as physical symptoms. So it's your choice, you can either be afraid of what the future holds, or you can be excited about what the future holds. Either way, the future is going to happen, you know, so make your choice and go forward, because taking action will always get you closer to whatever you want to be. And there's another thing that I got from that event I used to, I say this quite a lot the same. You might not always get what you want. But will you get more than you expected?

Andrew Stotz 32:10
Mm hmm. Well, I think that's a great way of wrapping it up. Let me ask you, what is a resource that you'd recommend resources of your own or any others feel free to share so that the audience can you know, stay in touch with you and learn more about what you're doing?

Justin Cunningham 32:29
Oh, thanks, Andrew. Appreciate that. Yeah, look, quite simply just go to my website, there's a super bundle there, I've got six or seven resources for people to kind of get a taste of what I do and, and the website is the leader, I shift results.com, I shift results.com. And that's a good way to sort of sample what I'm doing. And if you want to contact me, again, just just in cutting him on LinkedIn or Facebook, and look out for the crazy Kiwi guy, and I look forward to having a chat.

Andrew Stotz 33:02
Fantastic. All right. Last question. What is your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Justin Cunningham 33:08
Consistency. I'm much more interested in intentions than I am and goals. Because I know that behaviors and intentions create outcomes. And one of the things that I've discovered even though I'm an out there creative type of guy is that the truth about successes, if you're consistent and persistent, you win. Even if you have low talent, if you're consistent and persistent, you went. And, you know, as I said to you before this interview and you one of the things I've noticed about you is how consistent and persistent you are. And people that have that discipline I have I honestly, I see that as a superpower. And, and that is my ambition.

Andrew Stotz 33:54
I went through the book called Your One Word, and I really liked it. But my one word is relentless, just relentless. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet taken the risk reduction assessment, I challenge you to go to my worst investment ever.com right now and start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. As we conclude, Justin, I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of a Stotz Academy I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Justin Cunningham 34:33
Yeah, you've got one choice go big.

Andrew Stotz 34:36
Boom. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.