Ep556: Toni McLelland – An Influencer Isn’t Always a Specialist

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk. But to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives to reduce risk in your life. Go to my worst investment ever.com today and take the risk reduction assessment I created from the lessons I've learned from more than 500 guests and I said that all in one breath. Wow. Fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests, Tony McClellan. Tony, are you ready to join the mission?

Toni McLelland 00:47
Andrew, I was born already.

Andrew Stotz 00:51
You know, my British friends always say, Oh, you Americans overdramatic. But there I am. Anyways, I know you're born ready. In fact, we've already had a conversation before this. And I really learned and learned from you that you are a person who wants to be ready when the time has come. You know, I want to just share that. I've asked a lot of people who come on the show, and I generally don't do a pre show interview. But you're someone that says I want that. And I want to talk to you to find out what this is about. And you know, I value my time, meaning I'm speaking as you I value my time, and I want to know what this is all about. And I really appreciate that. And that gave us also a chance that to get to know each other. So now when we turn on the camera, it's even going to be more fun.

Toni McLelland 01:39
Well, I think the way that I would say that as well, Andrew is, you know, if someone says let's, let's hold hands and dive into the river together, you at least want to know who you're diving in with.

Andrew Stotz 01:52
Yeah. Could you know how to swim?

Toni McLelland 01:55
Yeah, if I'm gonna take a risk, let me know why I'm gonna do it.

Andrew Stotz 02:00
Yeah, particularly if they approach you with a podcast, like my worst investment ever.

Toni McLelland 02:05
Absolutely. But it's a pleasure to be here.

Andrew Stotz 02:08
I'm happy to have you with us. And I'm going to introduce you to the audience. Tony McClellan resides in London in the UK and spends time in Wales. She is a critical friend, business mentor and founder of the compassionate business model. Tony is an inspirational people leader who is passionate about navigating C suite and board members through the world of business crisis and change management in her work around organizational culture, specializing in social impact social justice, and social mobility business. She works with leading established organizations and brings the learning back to startups serving vulnerable groups, a previous central government employee, she brings a wealth of experience and is adept at contingency regulation, safeguarding, and compliance in business while showing business leaders how to be compassionate and profitable. Lastly, she sprinkles around her own much needed hashtag Tony's fairy dust, Tony, take a minute and fill in a little bit of certain tidbits about the value that you bring to this wonderful world.

Toni McLelland 03:18
Well, I'm gonna say to you, Andrew, the short version, which is, I feel that I spent the last 30 odd years, I don't even call it a career, I call it research and learning. And what I'm doing now is putting all of that together, after I try to make a little sense of it, and packaging it and giving it back to the world. So that's how I kind of look at it. You know, all of my experience and knowledge is not just learned in university, it's not just qualification based. I've been out in the trenches, I've been out in the fields, I've got the scars and the wounds, and everyone tells a story. So I'm hoping I can share maybe one or two of those stories with you today.

Andrew Stotz 04:00
That's fantastic. I love that idea. I never even really thought about it that ladies and gentlemen, look at the last five years, 10 years, 30 years, however many years that you've been working as your research, your time to study, to learn to observe, that's what research is. And now is your time to make conclusions from that research and bring those conclusions to the world. So lost lately.

Toni McLelland 04:23
And that's exactly what I hope to do from, you know, going into the world of work and having great managers right at the start and thinking this is what management and leadership is all about. And then you go to another manager and it's completely different. And you think Well, what was that all about? Are they a bad manager, all the other ones great, you know, so So there's so many stories like that that I'm hoping to be able to share a tip bit with you in this brief time we have Andrew, I just

Andrew Stotz 04:53
wanted to understand a little bit more about the types of situations that you have faced in your business. and kind of how you help people, maybe you could give, like some example or some ideas so that the audience knows what you're all about. And also, where's the best place to follow you?

Toni McLelland 05:10
Well, my title is critical friends and business mentor. And that's exactly what I am a critical friend. You know, I will tell you as it is, I'll help you find the answer. People and organizations that are in crisis or going through change usually, don't get in touch with me when things are fine. I call it the flatline. But actually, it's when the graph is peeking or dipping, that's when you'll see me, let's call Tony, get her in with a fairy dust and see if she can make a difference. And at that point, I'm really, I've probably got a short time of three or four months to make a difference, and realign things and set them back on their path to sustainability, my calling in some others. So my work is really in the social impact social justice, social mobility space, which you've just alluded to, in my intro, and that means that a lot of the organizations I work with are, you know, helping the most vulnerable groups, whether it's disability, special educational needs, mental health, homelessness, you know, the NHS, those types of organizations, and I'm very, very passionate about compassionate business. And compassion has been at the heart of everything that I've done, it's helped me to resolve conflict, it's helped me to keep safe. And it's helped me to enhance the performance of my teams within organizations that I've been leading. So that's why I've come back to compassion, right at the heart of everything that I do. But, you know, on the other side of compassion is a very astute businesswoman. And who is promoting the fact that it's very, very necessary to have business acumen. Business is more than just being able to lead people having a great skill, it's about having that great business acumen. And so I'm really, really passionate about being at the sharp end, in the fire, you know, and people have said, well, actually, are you a fire a firefighter? And I say, No, I'm not a firefighter, I'm a fire put it out there, Andrew, because when I go in, I'm not going to be fighting anything, I'm going to be looking at how I can resolve this problem. But being in that sharpened, I just love bringing some of that learning, what have we learned here? What are we going to do differently? 360 back to those people that are starting out in business, so they've got the best chance possible, of moving forward. So that's me in a real nutshell, I'm a champion of Dei. So diversity, equity inclusion, if you cut me in half, I'm gonna bleed, diversity, equity and inclusion, right the way through me, and I've got lots of experience to share, whether it be criminal justice, specialist education, social care, central government, so I'm just trying to bring the people piece and the policy piece and bring it as close together as possible. So hopefully, that gives you a little bit of

Andrew Stotz 08:06
yeah, definitely life. I mean, we need that I think one of the lessons I learned in my life, there was a time that I was in a halfway house. And I was in foster care when I was basically imploding as a young kid with drugs and alcohol. And then I ended up in treatment centers and kind of bouncing around. But in the end, I finished my third drug rehab when I was 17. And that was 40 years ago, and I've been sober ever since. So I always look back to the people who were either from the government or from different businesses that was set up to try to help. And just the commitment and the effort that they made, it was always difficult, every single person that showed up at that halfway house, you know, or in that rehab, who was in trouble. And yet there was people there willing to give their time and their energy, you know, some of them paid, some of them were volunteering. And so I know I owe a lot to the people in this world that have been there. And sometimes, you know, the last two years, for sure, life is too heavy for some of us sometimes, and we need a little help. And so my hat's off to you.

Toni McLelland 09:21
Thank you. And I think just to reinforce as well, the fact that, you know, I'm a real passionate person, and really part of that passion comes from the fact that every single person is different, and is an individual, we all have our own fingerprint. We all have our own DNA. So, you know, please just really think about the fact that you, Andrew, are very different to me. Identical twins are different. So let's think about it from that perspective. And really make sure that when we're approaching our work, to get the best that that's how we're going to go about

Andrew Stotz 10:00
it? Well, what a great introduction. And it's exciting. Now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it, then tell us your story.

Toni McLelland 10:14
Well, first of all, I'm gonna say that I wouldn't even frame it as my worst investment. It was an investment, that wasn't what it should have been, but I made it sub into something. And that's really how I'm gonna phrase it. Is that okay?

Andrew Stotz 10:29
I think it's, well, there are no rules. So that's the good, that's the good news, first of all, but the second one is that when people are in, you know, some of the listeners are in crisis, they are dealing with issues, and they feel like it really is the worst investment ever, or the worst situation ever. But you know, when you come on, and you frame it in that way, it also can help them think, well, I'll get through it, and I'll learn, so take it away?

Toni McLelland 10:51
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I just want to say that, on the back of it not being my worst investment ever making it really into something. And one of the things that I say is I don't have regrets, I only have learning experiences, because, you know, I can only learn from it. And there's no point in sitting in regret, it's a very negative space to be in. But one of the ones that I'm gonna really look up to, but what I'm gonna really talk about is, is the fact that I was on a social media platform. And, you know, the question really here is, knowing the difference between an influencer, a specialist, and a specialist influencer, you know, because actually, they're all very, very different. And it was something that I never really thought about until I had this experience, do you want me to continue?

Andrew Stotz 11:42
Take it away, though.

Toni McLelland 11:46
I was on a social media platform, and I've been watching this person for a very long time, they had a lot of following, they had a lot of engagement, you know, they knew what they were talking about. And, you know, also, I thought, This is really great, they've got a lot of protection, they know, their thing, I need some help, you know, in this particular area, and I'm going to, and I'm going to reach out, and, you know, invest. So I've reached out, you know, done a little bit of homework not much, because I was really impressed. I've been following for a little while. And I reached out and we, I paid and we engaged in a body of work, but it was a quite what it shouldn't, should have been, in my opinion, it felt very superficial, you know. And at that moment, I realized that, hey, this is not going to work out how I thought it was gonna work out because I thought I was getting some specialist help about x. When actually, I found myself face to face with an influencer. And to me, it really the penny dropped that they're two completely different things. But then again, you can have a specialist influence or someone who specializes in influencing. Yeah, and maybe that's what I got. So I mean, seeing that the situation that was presented in front of me, I'd already invested, I made good of what I had, and I got something out of it. But the way that I'm gonna phrase that Andrew is just by saying that I invested my money so that you can save yours. Why share that story openly? And say to people, do your homework, do your due diligence, influencers has a title for a reason? Yeah. And really think about, does this person have depth in terms of what you need? Or are they really spending their time as an influencer? And as somebody that's, that's kind of, you know, moved into a space now where I've got a reasonable community with reasonable engagement on my social media, you know, it's made me really think about that, in the back of my mind, how I present, do I present as a specialist, or am I influencing people, and it's really made me very mindful of what I share. So I don't know if that meets your criteria. But that's my story.

Andrew Stotz 14:17
Let me ask you, um, how would you summarize what you learned from it thinking about, you know, I want to I want to also frame it in a way that there's a lot of listeners and myself included, like, I need to get things done. And I can't do everything. And I'm looking for some people to help me and there's a lot of people out there, and there's people that are offering services, there's people that I'm seeking out, but you know, it doesn't always work out the way I want. And it doesn't always work out, as you describe, what lessons did you learn and how could those be applied to people who are looking right now?

Toni McLelland 14:47
Well, the lessons I learned is, you know, if you have somebody like for me, for example, me, I have a great network and I interact with lots of people. So there's people that I would recommend and there's people that I may not necessarily move towards. So always get a recommendation. If you can't get a personal recommendation like that, you know, just reach out to somebody that's in the thick of network? Who would you suggest? You know, have you got a few names that you can run, run my way, because then you've got, you know, you've got a good starting point, check out testimonials, check out what people are saying, you know, check, you know, do your do your research? And actually, you know, are there any guarantees with what they're saying? I say, Well, I guarantee you're gonna get a result. Are they saying that I guarantee that I will continue to work with you until you do get a result? You know, is there a money back guarantee? How are you assuring these people? You know, so that, how are you building that trust? So ultimately, there's a few things that I would say that we need to look out for. But, you know, for me, I felt that I kind of sacrificed myself so that others can learn from it. And, you know, it's really interesting, because when my son was a late teenager, you know, he, we had a conversation once. And he said, among the trouble is that, because I'm your son, I'm not allowed to make mistakes. And I said, Well, what do you mean? And he said, Well, you want me to learn from your mistakes. But sometimes I need to make my own. And I sat. And I thought with that from it, I sat with that for a minute. And I thought, because it's not very often I get challenged by my sons. But you know, every so often, they're right, and you're not so right, you know, so you have to sit and listen, I said, Okay, let's make a deal. Here, let's shake hands on it. I'll leave you to make your mistakes if you need to learn that way. But if I see you, as your mother making a very detrimental mistake, I have permission to hold you out of that, before it becomes late. And we have that agreement. And so I think that, despite the warnings, and despite the tips that I give, some people will always feel that they have to dip their toe in the water themselves, and experience it. And so be it, I've got a client just like that, Andrew, that regardless of what I say to her, she's always gonna go out and try it and get burnt. So I put this position myself to be able to support her, knowing that she's got to, she's got to test it. So, you know, I don't know if that kind of helped with,

Andrew Stotz 17:23
I think we need to introduce your son to Otto von Bismarck, he says Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Toni McLelland 17:35
Go, there you go. So this is his way. And sometimes people talk about, you know, making the same mistake over and over and over. But my take on this is that if you make a mistake once, then you don't make the same mistake over and over, you go in with a different approach. So it's a different mistake.

Andrew Stotz 17:52
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll share a couple things I take away I took away from it, I've written down some stuff. But I think that the key thing is that, really, the challenge is to do your research, you're going to hire someone for such and such professional services, it's up to you to do your research. And so let's just review first, ask them for recommendations. It should be no problem, if they're excellent. They should be able to line up a couple people for you to talk to. Now you can do if you really committing a lot of money and a lot of time, you may have to go out and seek out somebody who has worked with that person or does something with that person so that you can find out not only the type of people that, you know, that person recommends, but other people. But first thing is seek out recommendations. In fact, I recently had a discussion about some marketing services with a company I really liked what they said, but you know, anybody can say something and I said, Look, I really want to talk to a couple of your customers. And they didn't have any lineup. And then they came back a couple of days later. And they said, I've talked to these couple of customers and they're willing to talk to you. Okay, that's already a good sign right there.

Toni McLelland 19:07
That's a good sign. But the other thing as well is that sometimes I do what I do with my clients as well is I say, well, let's give it a trial. And preview it in a month. Yeah, let's see how how we go from there, you know, and just give people an opportunity to opt out if they want to, knowing that they won't, but the thing about it is with me, Andrew is I'm all in once you once you make that commitment, you pay on time and you're on time and you've made that commitment. I'm all in you know and let's get to the end of this but I think my main thing is, you know I don't have mistakes. I have learning experiences. I want to learn from everything. And anything I do learn because remember, I'm still in research mode. I want to share, package up and share with people Like you said, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Andrew Stotz 20:04
And the last thing I take away too is what is the guarantee, you know what is ultimately I'm going to this person for a result. And I want to know I'm trying to reduce my risk. And in one of my courses, devaluation masterclass, boot camp is a six week course. And I basically say, take the course, for one week. At the end of seven days, if you're not satisfied, I'll return 100% of your money, no questions asked. I won't even ask you why. And I've now had 100 People go through that I have not one person has asked for their money back.

Toni McLelland 20:42
Well, and I think that that it does help, doesn't it? It, it reassures it builds trust, you know, and I, you know, if we're going through social media, I say watch people watch how they respond, not necessarily just what they're posting, but how are they responding to others? You know, are they interacting what you know? So that's, that's really kind of that's really key, isn't it? You know, it's not just about the time that you're in that interview phase, or you're having a consultation with them. You've watched them for a month or two, if not longer. And quite often people say to me, they pop in my inbox and say, I've been watching you, Tony, I've been listening to what you've been saying. And I think we need to have a conversation because they've been watching. So Are they consistent watch for consistency is really the commitment and consistency.

Andrew Stotz 21:35
There it is. And also, it reminds me, when you talk about this guarantee, idea, I reminds me of Episode 412, which was a guy named Weldon long. And he basically said he installed H vac systems, you know, into homes. And he basically said, use it for a year, if you're not satisfied, I'll completely remove it and put you back where you were. And it was such a challenge, you know, so as not only when we're searching for services, are we looking for good guarantees, but I challenge the listeners out there to for your own services, what level of guarantee are you giving about the result that you can get? And the point is, when I did this guarantee money back, no questions asked after seven days of joining. So one week out of six. It made me really think what value am I bringing, and when people I started started bringing more and more value. And then people did not ask for their money. But I started realizing, feeling like proud like I want to bring more. So it's a great, it's a great lesson. And you know, recommendations, testimonials, guarantees, do your homework, and

Toni McLelland 22:46
years and years about it, like I've been doing don't do 30 years worth of research and keep it moving and trying to fill the next bit because

Andrew Stotz 22:55
that's the great thing about research is that one piece of research builds on another and builds on another and we can understand it. So we appreciate that. Unfortunately, I have to admit that I've done my 30 years of research to also so unfortunately, I don't have that chance. But for our listeners out there, you got the chance to learn from Tony's 30 years of research. So based upon what you've learned from this story and what you continue to learn in your life, what action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate just one thing they should do when they're searching out for that professional help.

Toni McLelland 23:28
Just really listen to yourself that inner voice that says something's not right. And I know that people in the financial services or that sector are very, very busy. Don't have time. If you don't have time, don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Because you need to make the time. Yep.

Andrew Stotz 23:49
All right. So what is a resource that either you've created or you've accessed yourself that you'd recommend for our listeners?

Toni McLelland 23:58
Well, um, one of the things I would say is, I'm doing a lot of work around the compassionate business and problem solving. I have a very interesting model, which is based on three things behavior, learning and environment, but it's got people focused in the middle. If people want to hear about that or learn about that, then I suggest that they reach out to me, I'm happy to give a complimentary 30 minute consultation to anyone. And I found that that is my model that I've developed over my 30 years research and, you know, would you like me to share my website? Do

Andrew Stotz 24:32
you share it share where they should go?

Toni McLelland 24:34
So, www dot one S T life group.com. So that's first as in the digit first Life Group att.com You can find me on LinkedIn where I've got a regular presence and that's Tony McClellan's MSc and I'm all the regular challenge channels. Under first life brew Paul Tony McClelland, look out for hashtag to Oh, he's very tough because I give out lots

Andrew Stotz 25:02
fantastic. And we'll have all the links to that in the show notes, ladies and gentlemen. So if you can't find it, just go right there. All right, last question. What is your number one goal for the next 12 months

Toni McLelland 25:14
to touch as many people as possible with my learning, so that they can share? You know, I want to share my wisdom, I want to share my stories, you know, and yeah, that's what I want to do. I want to touch as many people as possible so they don't have to go through, you know, some of the things that I've gone through and if they can learn from that, then that's great. So I'm on a mission at the moment, especially around compassionate business.

Andrew Stotz 25:37
Fantastic. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet taken the risk reduction assessment, I challenge you to go to my worst investment ever.com right now and start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. As we conclude, Tony, I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of East Arts Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for our audience?

Toni McLelland 26:09
When you stop learning, you stop growing.

Andrew Stotz 26:14
All right, and that is a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.