Ep548: Nat Berman – You’re Smart Enough to Invest on Your Own

Andrew Stotz 00:00
So this is Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risks but to win big, you have got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives to reduce risk in your life. Go to my worst investment ever.com today and take the risk reduction assessment I created from the lessons I've learned from more than 500 guests, fellow risk takers, this is your worst podcast hosts Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guests not Berman, not, are you ready to join the mission?

Nat Berman 00:44
I'm ready to join the mission, Andrew?

Andrew Stotz 00:47
Oh, yeah. Let me introduce you to the audience. 15 years of experience running his own business, more than enough money, time and freedom. And now, that Berman teaches the practical steps he's taken to achieve these results in what now takes only three to four hours a day. That is an incredibly seductive description of you and what you're doing. Maybe you can tell us about the unique value you bring to this beautiful world.

Nat Berman 01:21
Sure, appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. In terms of the value, I guess, I'd bring, it probably wasn't very public until, you know, a year or two ago, but I've owned a portfolio of websites for a number of years, as you said, 15 of them. But I hadn't really gone public with what I do, who I am till probably about a little less than two years ago. And that's when I started going on LinkedIn and sort of posting these videos just about work and life and money, things that really interests me. And also, you know, the ability to work on your own and also work, you know, a schedule, that's certainly doable and a little less strenuous than then most people are accustomed to.

Andrew Stotz 02:18
And there's a few things I would ask about. I mean, the first thing is, you know, a lot of people write emails, or they write posts on LinkedIn, as an example. But you do video, you do video on LinkedIn, and you do video, you know, email. And I'm just curious, maybe you can tell us a little bit about why you do that. And what's, you know, what do you find from that? What is unique or what is good about them?

Nat Berman 02:44
Um, I'm just kind of comfortable in front of the camera. I like facial intonations, I like being able to make folks laugh. And I think a lot of that has to do with movement. And you can be funny in Texas, no question. But I think the absolute, most authentic self you can be is probably on camera to the best of your ability. So I just sort of, I just sort of let it rip. And basically, no script, you know, I'll pick something that sort of interests me in a feed or a video or something. And I'll just kind of riff on it. And it seemed to play out pretty well, I had this thing where I would sit in my backyard. And I think people just like the comfortable nature of it. I would sit in front of my pool. And it was almost a dig at some of the guys that would that, you know, post these commercials with Lamborghinis and whatnot, it was just me just sitting in my backyard. Nothing more, nothing less. And I think that probably made some people a little, a little bit more at ease with what I was trying to do. So yeah, video, just it. I took to it pretty well, frequently.

Andrew Stotz 04:06
The reason one of the reasons why I'm interested in is because I mean, I like video, it's more easy format for me. I've got you know, like you and most of us, you know, we have thoughts in our minds about something, just a simple outline a few bullets, a few ideas or an experience that happened on that day. And I've got something to say about it. And but I have always kind of felt like, oh, I should write that. And I look at some people's emails that are so long and so well written. And I just, it stops me. And when I see your videos and see what you're doing, it kind of makes me think and I think for the listeners out there that you're thinking about how to communicate to your followers to your clients to your audience. If you're feeling like you know, it's just like some people like I don't know, should I do podcasts should I do YouTube? Should I do email and all that I think what you're doing with video is a good example for all of us that if you're comfortable getting in front of the video, nothing wrong with it. It's a good method. And you've I wrote down one word, which is authentic, you know, it's not always an authenticity doesn't always come across in written texts. But it does in in video. So let me ask you a question about that. If you were giving, let's say, me, or my listeners advice to say, yeah, why don't you start communicating to your tribe, your audience, your group, through video, through short video of following what you're doing to some extent, what, what advice would they give what you give them now, after you've got a lot of experience doing it?

Nat Berman 05:40
My best advice would be to start, you know, I think that's the most important thing is just to go through the motions. I mean, the funny thing about video for me is, there's zero flash, there's like, the only editing I do is taking out the part where I sit in my chair, you know, so that, you know, the video they use, the viewer doesn't have to watch me do that. But you know, very briefly, I did some coaching and I helped some people out and I was like, just just get it, just get in front of the camera and start talking. And I know that's not an incredibly detailed explanation. But don't let technology deter you don't let you know the lighting deter you don't let anything get in the way other than just pressing record. And record can mean your phone, I mean, I do tick tock videos, and you kind of have to use your phone for tic tock videos if you want to use their editor. So you want to talk about raw, and, you know, unfiltered, unfiltered, to the best of your ability that I get about as raw as you can get. And not only that, I don't intend to do anything past that, because I'm too lazy. And I think if you're like, your message is gonna get out there. Whether it's, you know, the finest production value in the world or not. And that's what I found, especially with this sort of new age of video, and people, you know, getting on camera to either market themselves or their brand. The thing that I've seen the most is, what seems to be progressing is this. It's almost a bad word authenticity, because now people are being authentic on purpose, which is kind of the whole opposite of what authenticity really is. So you kind of have to read through the lines there and believe who I guess you want to believe.

Andrew Stotz 07:45
Luckily, more authenticity here. Come on, bring that out.

Nat Berman 07:48
Yeah, exactly. I think I think most of the folks that see me are like that really is the guy on camera, I can't believe that I even had a video that's like, Yeah, this is the stuff I talked about at home, like this is how I am from my wife and my kids. And that, that's, that's part of that's part of the game. But I think what you're starting to see, which is I think a thing in the right direction, is some of the most popular videos on Tiktok. And I bring up tick tock only because it's such a popular medium now. The most popular ones are when people are absolutely 100% Unequivocally themselves, whether it's somebody you know falling or making a mistake, it doesn't matter what it is, it's just, it's, those are the videos that are the most popular, and you're starting to see a decline in the Instagrams of the world, because a lot of that is just airbrushed. It's what they want you to see. And I think the world is it has is getting to a much more sort of, quote unquote, real place as far as what they request from their either entertainment or their advertising. It you can't get away with certain things anymore. And whether that's a more intellectual user or not, I don't think makes a difference. You know, it, maybe the non intellectual user just wants reality as well. It doesn't make you know, it doesn't matter. But I don't I don't make the rules, right. But I definitely understand that that's exactly where we are right now. And that may shift again someday where people want the more polished versions, but right now where we are right now this second. I think that's a very desired trait in video, you know, text, whatever.

Andrew Stotz 09:51
Great. Yeah, it's a good I look at some tic TOCs and I just think oh my god, that guy is really put in a lot that time that I'm thinking, I don't want that. And I think you've given some direction to me as well as to others. In fact, I think, you know, your number one advice was just start. And so I'm going to make a commitment and a challenge to the audience, you know, make as soon as you finish with listening to this episode, post a video, and tag us tag both of us in that I'm going to do that myself. I'm going to just after we finish this conversation, I'm going to think about a topic that's, you know, significant for me, and I think could bring value and I'm just do a short video on it. And I'll tag you that how about that? Sounds like a plan? All right. Excellent advice. Well, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it and tell us your story.

Nat Berman 10:49
Sure, this was actually very many years ago. And look, I've made plenty of bad investments. But this one's strictly financial strictly stock related. That's just so textbook, when you look back at it, but whatever, I think it was, man 2000, like, five or six or something like that. And, you know, I wouldn't call myself an intelligent investor. But I would say I know my stuff reasonably well, right. But I knew a guy that worked for Jim Cramer, directly. And he was very high on his mind. And he's like, This guy's a wizard. He knows what he's talking about all that stuff, never, you know, tons of people watch his show and whatnot. And I had a little insider information on a stock that he was going to tout on his show that he was going to put in his charitable trust, which is, I guess that's where some of his stocks with conviction go. So it wasn't inside information, like, literally, it was just I knew I knew of the stock that he was going to mention. And that stock was New York Stock Exchange, NYSE that was the stock at the time. And back in those days, I didn't have a ton of money. But I remember putting in 30 grand, and at that time, it was significant. And I lost a lot of it in not a long amount of time. But the thing that was really interesting, and here's the lesson, I guess, is that I didn't really, I mean, I was pissed, right? But I was not pissed at my friend. And I certainly wasn't pissed at Jim Cramer. I was pissed at myself. You know, the second that didn't happen, I completely blame myself. And oddly enough, I wasn't even that angry about the loss. I mean, I was angry. But I also knew like, hey, look, I make a living, I can save money, we'll come back. I'm not terribly worried about the literal loss. But I'll never forget how that anger and me being pissed was a real catalyst for just never, ever, ever taking advice again, or taking a tip ever again. Don't get me wrong. Oh, listen to advice all day. I've got no problem doing that. I mean, I think you'd be foolish not to at least hear different points of view and listen to advice when it comes to investing in you know, your finances, but but that's the last time I'll ever just be like, yeah, sure, I'll put down a sizable portion of my of my savings into a stock after a 10 minute conversation. I've done things like that, you know, since then, but very much of my own volition can very much based on my belief in a particular industry. So for example, like, even recently, I put in $50,000 into something that I almost just snapped 50 grand into it and like didn't even research it. But it's in my industry. It's based on websites. It was something that I would never hesitate on pulling the trigger on. It was just a matter of how much money you know, am I going to put into this? So yeah, that was a kind of spur of the moment decision but completely different in context. And in my, in my core strength of, you know, understanding what I was doing. The one I did with, you know, my friend and Jim Cramer that was a textbook, buying on a tip which To anyone listening is I'll just say one of the dumbest things you can possibly do. Yeah, you could get lucky, you can. But you could also have happened, what I did, I'm pretty sure I lost, you know, over a third of that money in like two weeks or something like that it was crazy. And at some point, I just, I was like, I gotta cut my losses here. And it happens, you know, it happens. But I think if you're going to do something like that, and I'm not even suggesting people that I'm not even saying like, don't do it in a weird kind of way, I'm almost saying, if you're going to, it's like, it's like going to the casino and saying, I'm only going to lose this amount of money, and then losing that amount. And if you lose that amount, you can live with it, and you can walk out the door. But if you go into a casino, saying I'm gonna lose 300 bucks, and then you lose 300 and take out another 300, you're gonna be that much more pissed off when you leave the casino. So I do think it comes down to discipline, to a very great extent. But on the whole, no, I wouldn't recommend just taking tips and spending a shitload of money of your, of your savings on a stock. So I guess that's the worst investment I've ever made from a literal stock finance point of view.

Andrew Stotz 16:16
And so let's recap now, how would you describe that the lesson that you learn?

Nat Berman 16:24
Oh, I would say, do your own research. Everybody is smart enough. I mean, everybody is smart enough to make their own investments. And if you're not, for God's sakes, just invest in the s&p 500, when the most successful investor have probably all time Warren Buffett says just put your money in s&p. It's so much easier to listen to than put in practice. But I mean, when the best hedge funds in the world can even compete with a simple index, come on, man. So I would say do your own research, assess your risk, you know, understand what you're comfortable losing. You know, I think that's an important one. And I can't, you know, a lot of gurus or financial experts will tell you, they'll give you formulas right as to what you should be comfortable losing. I agree with that, from a practical point of view, but I don't from a psychological point of view, because somebody's risk profile, one person can be very, very different from another's. And there are some people comfortable going on millions of dollars of margin, right, and they can wake up and go to sleep every single day. I'm not one of those people. Some of your listeners may not be one of those people, and some of them may be so To each their own in terms of their actual risk tolerance. But if you're conservative like me, the way I invest is, is whatever helps me sleep at night, whatever allows me to go on the pillow and say, I'm not afraid of what's going to happen at any given moment. That's my barometer for investing.

Andrew Stotz 18:04
That's great, maybe I'll share a couple of things that you made me think about. First of all, I've looked at all the different stories that I've gotten, and I've classified them into six common mistakes. And the first most common mistake you said it right off, you know, at the end here is that that mistake is failed to do their own research. And you basically told everybody, do your own research. And you said something that I think is really smart. It says everybody's smart enough. And it's hard. You know, sometimes we get even intimidated by people that are really experts in the world of finance and investing. And then you've got, of course, millions of people that act as if they are really experts in the world of finance. But the fact is, whether it's you know, the books are out there now on Amazon or on other sites, the work is out there by experts who have simplified it, you are smart enough to get any book, that's a good book, you know, look on on any site, like like Amazon as an example. And there's there's five good quality books on investing for beginners. And of course, I'll selfishly say mine is a pretty good one, how to start building your wealth investing in the stock market. But there's other ones that you know, are pretty much similar, and they're saying the same thing. So the first thing is failed to do their research. The second thing which you just mentioned, right after that was the second most common and that is failed to properly assess and manage risk. And that is I was just waiting for you to say the third which is driven by emotion or flawed thinking, and that usually is greed or excitement or whatever that is and there's no thinking process and then people just jump into it. The fourth is misplaced trust. And the fifth is failed to monitor a lot of people put their money in something and then they don't monitor it. it, and then the fit the 60s invested in a startup company. And that's where people usually lose all their money, like startup company investment is binary, you're either gonna lose it all, or, you know, you're gonna gain. And so the last thing I would say, to summarize, from a perspective of a financial expert, you know, on my side is, to summarize what you've said, for the audience, what I would say is that, number one, you've, you've heard that talk about, invest in the s&p 500, or an index, there are great ETFs and index funds nowadays, one of them that I look at a lot is the VT Vanguard fund, it owns every stock in the world, it's not the only one, there's ones at Fidelity and other places, but it owns every stock in the world, it's like when you buy that fun, you have reduced your risk of the equity market down to just what's gonna happen with the equity market, no one stock is going to destroy you. And the result of that is that you know, you're not going to, you're not gonna be able to tell your friends that you made 100% on a particular stock, but you aren't going to be crying at home to say, I lost it all. So that's number one that I take away from that. And actually, when we talk about doing your own research, when you read a book, find out more about it and go to the sites of these companies, like Vanguard or fidelity or other ones and learn about those particular funds, you'll find out that there's not a lot that you really have to do, you just mainly have to contribute to it over time. And the last thing is, I just was wanted to highlight something that I say is, I think, never, ever buy a stock that somebody tells you about. If somebody calls you or expresses something about a stock to you don't buy that one. Now, that's a little bit shocking, because people like how am I going to learn how to buy stocks? Well, that's part of my point is that if the way that you're learning how to buy stocks is by what people are telling you, you're already behind the eight ball, because they're talking about things that you know, are already public knowledge, and you know, all that. The second thing is that, what I'm saying is, you've got to do your own research, you've got to make your decision that this is the stock that I want to own for a particular reason. And then the last thing I would say is that if you decide no, Andrew, I don't want to own an index fund, like not saying, I want to be able to pick stocks, and you know, all that. Well, that my advice then is own 10 stocks. If you got to pick a portfolio and build a portfolio, own 10 stocks, and that will diversify away most of that company's specific risk. So those are some things that I would say anything you would add to that.

Nat Berman 22:42
No, I was just gonna say it's funny, you said that because the majority of my money is in index, but I do own exactly 10 stocks. I just like said, I'm going to own these 10 stocks, you know, for better or for worse, that pretty conservative, you know, large companies, that kind of thing. But those were conviction stocks that I chose myself and I said, I'm just gonna let these ride for the next, you know, 2030 years. I was just, it's just funny. You mentioned the number 10. Because that's exactly how many I own.

Andrew Stotz 23:14
Yeah, and that number comes from my academic research where I balance risk and return and basically say, Okay, what's the optimum number? If you want to build a portfolio, the point is also you have first, if you own 1000 stocks, the possibility of outperformance doesn't really exist, because you're now the market. So you want to have less stocks to have the opportunity to maybe outperform. The second thing is, you don't want to have too few stocks. If you own one and it goes bust. You lost all your money. So there's this other force of diversification. So diversification is telling you to own more, but the possibility of outperformance is telling you to own less. And then you have a third factor, which is the difficulty factor of finding those stocks and monitoring those stocks. And that's why I say, you know, it's very difficult for a typical person to maintain. Even a 10 stock portfolio is challenging if you want to keep on top of what's happening with it. So those different factors come together and tell us 10 is a good number. So based upon what you learn from this story, and what you continue to learn, let's imagine a young man or woman is just gotten a tip from a friend. They've just gotten in, whoa, this is going to be big. Wow, exciting. Well, it all comes together and my friend is gonna go on TV. This is going to be big. And this is worth me taking $30,000 out of the bank and putting it down on this. I mean, I'm gonna go do this today. So what one action would you recommend our listeners to take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Nat Berman 24:48
Calls? Pause. That's my biggest piece of advice. pause and take a breath Seriously, that's my biggest piece of advice, at the at the least, at the least. Read about it right after they said it, because you could be excited about it. And that's fine. But read about it. See what kind of news there is. If you understand anything about financials, check that out. But at the least don't do anything for at least 24 hours to a week. You know what I mean? I mean, I would say more like a week. But yeah, my biggest thing is pause. And obviously, according to your advice, if you do it at all. And I don't think that's bad advice at all. Because guess what, you don't lose money that way. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about money, and one of the biggest problems people have is that if there's one area of life, it's funny, I'll start a business at the drop of a hat. And to me, it's not risky, because I'm doing it myself. And I'm all in and I take full responsibility for gains or losses, and I don't, I just don't see it as risk. You know, people can make arguments all day. And the real risk is working nine to five. And you know, for a company that can fire you tomorrow, like I get that I know the cliche, I hear it, but honestly, I don't. It's almost foreign to foreign to me, when someone says what you're doing is risky, right? What's risky to me? is dropping 30 grand on a stock that I don't know anything about, right? What's risky to me. I'm a very conservative investor, or at least I think I am. And it's like, I have a business that does very well. If I just put the cash away. I'm good to go. I don't have to earn positive or negative, I don't even need compounding annual returns, right. So it's, and that's almost like a eureka moment that that one could have. It's like some people prefer, you know, there's a lot of financial experts or gurus that tout like, hey, you know, save on that next cup of coffee and put it in the s&p and 50 years, you have x? Well, I'm from the camp of build your income, right? build as much income as you can save as much as you can. If you have expenses of let's say, $60,000 a year. Maybe it makes sense for you to try to save $60,000 a year, right? Every year, you're putting away another year of money. Don't get me wrong, of course you want that to grow for you. But man, imagine how powerful position you're in. If your mind goes to income streams, right? Building income building ways to make money so that you're not nervous. So you're so you're not relying on so much, you know, and then all of a sudden stock market. That's cake, right? I know, I know, not everyone has that luxury. You do what you can start off as early as you can, you know, but that's just my two cents. Yeah.

Andrew Stotz 28:02
And at the end of this podcast, for my regular listeners, they're used to me saying, create, grow and protect our wealth. And I think what you're explaining very well is the importance of creating wealth and creating that cash flow stream. Most people go into the stock market thinking they're going to create wealth in the stock market, but the stock markets where you grow your wealth. And when you go into the stock market thing, it's like going to Las Vegas and saying I'm gonna get rich. Well, yes, that's the wrong mentality, you may want to go to Las Vegas to say, I'm gonna have fun. But to go to Las Vegas, and say, I'm gonna get rich, I mean, with a real determination, you know, as most as most people do in the stock market. So we create our wealth. And now the second thing is that some people may say, Yeah, but I don't know what to do. And I am not good at websites or business, you know, I'm not good at accounting. You know, basically the answer for that person who's listening right now who's saying, I just have a corporate job, and you know, I'm good at it. Well, ultimately, the source of our wealth is our energy. And that energy we get every single morning, we wake up, and we have a certain amount of energy that we can expend on physical activity and mental activity, until we exhaust that energy. And let's say that energy lasts us, you know, maybe we got four hours of really concentrated energy that we could use in that day. And basically, your job is to make sure you're allocating that energy to the thing that you like, and that you can contribute, and that you gain from it. And so many people don't even realize that the source of creation of wealth is that energy. And therefore if you realize that it's not necessary that you start a business, just improve yourself and get a higher salary. And if you make let's say, you make $100,000 And now and you're spending $95,000 a year because you know, you're living in that consumer world and you've got to spend and blah, blah, blah, Are, you don't realize you have you already have a business, all you got to do is cut that cost from 95,000, down to 55,000. And now you're producing a $45,000 a year cash machine. That's more than many small businesses produce. So understand the creation of wealth happens either through the gap of income and expenses in business, or salary and expenses in an individual. And if you focus on that, and maximizing that gap, like people asked me when I was younger, and in the finance industry working for an investment banker said, you know, you could be making so much more if you were in New York City, yeah, but I wouldn't be spending it all. It's not that it's not the pay that I'm getting. It's the gap between my pay and expenses. So ladies and gentlemen, the opportunity to create wealth is there right now, cut your costs as deeply as you can, and live a more simple life, and you have an ATM machine, you have a value creation machine, and then growing that wealth in the stock market, you can keep it in the bank, or you can do it at an index fund and keep it simple. So I just want to really highlight that you are an example of someone who is very clear about how you're generating that cash flow through your website through your business. But for the listeners out there, if you say yeah, but I can't do that. But you can take your energy and create value through your salary.

31:34
Yeah, I agree with that.

Andrew Stotz 31:36
I get excited about that. So what is a resource that you'd recommend for our listeners?

Nat Berman 31:43
Um, it's funny, because when we talked a little bit before you said, it can be your own, or it could be something else. There's something that I believe in wholeheartedly. And there's actually an individual that I happen to really respect his name is Cal Newport. And if you know that name, definitely, yeah. I just like his stance on drawing out the maximum output, you can in the shortest amount of time. And it's funny, I've been doing that for the last decade plus, and I never saw someone really put it more succinctly as he did in some of his work. And I just, he comes at it from a very scientific point of view. So it kind of proves everything puts it way more eloquently than I could. And that was that that was part of something I teach. I taught excuse me a lot when I was doing one on one coaching, which was, you think you can't do things in a certain amount of time, but you're wrong. Because you're not focusing hard enough, you know? So I would read Cal Newport? Look, you can always come to me, I've got stuff on Tik Tok. I've got stuff on LinkedIn. I post every single day. So you know, that's an avenue to go to. Yeah, but I think someone who aligns with my values as far as from a work perspective, I really liked Cal Newport.

Andrew Stotz 33:20
Great book, deep work. It was influential for me. And I know, yeah, that that one really hit me. And I think as an individual, entrepreneur, and starting my own business, I realized that, you know, the whole world is out there to diffuse my energy. In my mind challenges, and I figured out a solution I came up, I've asked about 1000s of people, every time I go out to speak, I ask people similar question, which is, how many hours of truly productive time do you have in a day? And the answer is somewhere between two and four hours that I get. And let's just take three hours as an example that that's your, like, physical capacity to deep think deep work? And how and if you're working at a company, like when I used to work at Citibank, as an example, if I didn't use that time, well, in a day, it didn't matter to Citibank, if I didn't use that time. Well, in a week, it didn't matter to Citibank Citibank kept going. If I didn't do that, well, for a month, it didn't matter to Citibank Citibank just kept going. But if I lost that time, as an individual business owner, it matters. And so as a result, what I did is I just said, Okay, if I got to get four hours, why don't I just start off the day and shut down everything and go to work for the first four hours of the day, and God my first four hours before anybody else can take it from me, and that's my simple solution. Last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Nat Berman 34:52
To be proud of myself. That's that's a big one. Very little to do with money. I have very little to do with business growth. I think it's just being able to look into the mirror every day and knowing that not necessarily that I'm trying my hardest, but then I'm satisfied and that I'm comfortable with where I am. And I think that's, it may not be necessarily a goal for the next 12 months, it's pretty much a goal every day. But sure, yeah, I want my business to triple and growth. And I want to, you know, I want to, you know, 10 times where I remember doing all that, but realistically, I really just believe that it's so much more important to, to look, look in the mirror, and what you see is something that you proud of,

Andrew Stotz 35:46
yeah, that's great. And for the listeners out there, there's all kinds of ways you can achieve that, you know, just go out and help somebody. You know, my mother's lived with me for six years now, since my father passed away. And I've done a lot of things, you know, that I'm not like, I just don't feel good about what are some of the mistakes I've made in my business, and just, you know, so many frustrating things. But when I look at my mom every morning, and we have coffee together, and I give her a hug, and I think I'm proud of the fact that I've provided a safe environment for her to, you know, enjoy her days. And so the point is, for the listeners out there, I think you've given a great, just be proud of yourself, go out there and make sure that the actions you're taking today are actions that you're going to feel proud about. So ladies and gentlemen, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet taken the risk reduction assessment, I challenge you to go to my worst investment ever.com Right now, and start building wealth the easy way, by reducing risk. As we conclude that I want to thank you again for joining our mission. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience? They focused. Beautiful, beautiful. We've got a lot of great advice out of this, you know, pause is one and stay focused is another. There's a lot of great stuff in here. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth. Fellow risk takers, thank you for joining our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.