Ep515: David Segura – Sometimes Slowing Down Can Keep You Alive

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk, but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. To reduce risk in your life, go to my worst investment ever.com today and take the risk reduction assessment. I've created this assessment. From the lessons I've learned from all my guests. It's time you start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. Fellow risk takers, this is your worst podcast host and I'm here with featured guest, David segura. David, are you ready to join our mission?

David Segura 00:45
Absolutely.

Andrew Stotz 00:47
I'm excited to have you on and you know, truthfully, what your work is all about. It's something I'm really interested in. So let me introduce you to the audience. David is an accomplished entrepreneur and investor who currently serves as the CEO of glass box media, a podcast platform that enables podcast hosts to grow their brand revenue, and new listener base with direct investment and technology support. David previously founded giant media where he served as the CEO from launch through acquisition. The company was an early video advertising exchange that includes AmEx, L'Oreal Dollar Shave Club, as his clients launched in 2009. It was acquired by an app by an ad tech roll up in 2014. David is also an active startup investor with upwards of 60 investments. David, take a minute and tell us a bit about the value that you bring to the world.

David Segura 01:46
Yeah, you know, I like to think it's my energy, you have an open mind, I embrace risk. Obviously, I try my best to try to minimize that manage it as best I can. But the fact of the matter is that I just really love companies. I love startups, I don't limit myself to one category. Blob ad tech love media, but I also like consumer, I like AI. I like innovation. And I'm always very happy to support entrepreneurs.

Andrew Stotz 02:10
Actually, you're one of the first people that say that my value is his energy. And I love that because you know, ultimately, I mean, it's what matters. I teach a course on, you know, giving presentation. And I said the content doesn't matter. What matters is you transfer the energy that you have in your body into theirs. And they will remember you forever, they'll forget your words, but they will remember that transfer of energy. So I love it. And I can feel your energy right now.

David Segura 02:38
Sounds good.

Andrew Stotz 02:39
I want to ask you a little bit about before we go into the big question, I want to ask you a little bit about what you're doing. And, you know, I probably should have gone to someone like you when I started my podcast. But you know, I'm kind of a loner, I think, oh, I don't want to bother someone else. I don't want to pay. I want to start it on my own and keep it low budget. I'm not sure if it's gonna work. Okay, that was phase one. Now, after 500 or so close to 500 interviews, you know, I'm at phase two or three. And, you know, I'm just curious, like, what do you what do you see in your business? And how do you help people?

David Segura 03:15
Yeah, you know, I'm just a media junkie, I love all things media, emerging media and new types of media. So it was natural for me to gravitate towards podcast. You know, my backstory, and I'll be spares here is that I sold this company giant media many years ago, basically, that video exchange network that you talked about in the bio, and had a really great outcome. But like a lot of people after selling to a much larger company, decided eventually to, you know, kind of move off things after we were integrated successfully. And you know, had some fun doing a lot of investing and honestly travel, including to Thailand actually. So great country very familiar with it. But eventually, you know, ironically enough, because the COVID, I decided that it was time to get the band back together. And not. So coincidentally, our non competes were up as well. So we reorganized, built a new company called glassbox. Media. And simplistically, all we're trying to do is work with a lot of podcast hosts, like yourself, a lot of your listeners, I imagine, and essentially help them meet new brands that could make for great sponsors. We're leveraging technology as well. So we're serving a lot of these ads programmatically, as opposed to doing it baked in, we're trying to increase the value of the catalog, if that makes sense. And then I think one of our core value as based on all the feedback we get from our incredible creator community, is that they like the fact that we're willing to invest in them and basically help them grow their audience by putting our capital at risk and building that up listenership. So things are going well launched last year, and we're off to the races.

Andrew Stotz 04:43
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, because, like, when you get podcasts, you know, you don't, I mean, there are some people that start off thinking about sponsors, but you know, I didn't do that because I just felt like I didn't have much to bring to a sponsor at the time and Then I started, you know, a cup, I don't know, six months ago, I thought, I thought, what? How would I do that? I don't even know how I do it. And then because also, you know, I have a full time job I have, you know, a lot of work that I'm doing. So it's not like I can spend all my time doing it. And then I thought, Okay, what's a product that I like, you know, I use acuity scheduling to schedule all of my appointments. So I said, Well, why don't I just reach out to acuity scheduling? And they said, Well, we're not taking podcast. We're not doing podcast advertising right now. I thought, Okay. And then that was about the extent of it. And then I thought, you know, I don't know how to reach those brands. So it sounds like part of what you're trying to do is bring together those brands. And the people that are interested in advertising with the people that are building those audiences is that that's sound like it makes sense is what you're doing.

David Segura 05:49
That's exactly it. And you know, one thing I definitely want to let you know, you and your listeners know, is that being an entrepreneur, is very humbling. In other words, we have a thesis, but as soon as we go out to market, it gets corrected. Yeah, you know it as well as I do. And one of the simple thesis is just to be candid, is that we thought, oh, all our old clients, American Express, you know, Dollar Shave Club, all these amazing companies, they're immediately going to jump into podcasting. The short answer is they're aware, they know it's growing, but it's new, so they're not spending. So one of the values that we bring to the table is that we're educating a lot of those kind of larger brands, getting them comfortable and bringing them into the market. And then to your point, by bundling things together, we're able to give them the scale that they need, and that basically lifts all boats, if you will.

Andrew Stotz 06:32
Well, that's great. And for the listeners out there that are interested, either they have podcasts, or they want to launch podcasts and they want to learn more, where should they go to be in touch with you and to learn what you're doing?

David Segura 06:44
Definitely check out our website at www glassbox media.com. And you can also if you want, send me a personal email, David glassbox media will reply.

Andrew Stotz 06:56
Fantastic. And I'll have the link in the show notes, ladies and gentlemen. So just go there and click on it. And I like the name. I mean, it's easy to remember glassbox media. So that's really cool.

David Segura 07:05
But bad speller. So I tried to keep it simple. Exactly, exactly.

Andrew Stotz 07:09
Alright, well, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be. Tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to then tell us your story.

David Segura 07:20
Yeah, you said it best. Like I'll say this, I have a diverse portfolio, like a lot of people out there. But when I say investments, what I really mean what takes up most of my mind space is Angel investing. I invest my own capital, you know, from having sold a few businesses directly into startups, literally the riskiest stage precede seed, you name it, sometimes I'm very often the first person to write the check. So I'm comfortable with risk, I embrace it, I sometimes probably chase it too aggressively. But like you mentioned, like nobody thinks that investment they're making one to being their worst. And the humbling part about angel investing specifically, is that you can have all the confidence in the world and end up being like completely wrong. And then the vice versa is also true, a business that you weren't that sure about, but the founder was persistent, you decided why not I'll give it a chance. And then that business ends up being like, you know, 10x 50x, you know, outcome. And it's very humbling. That's the one takeaway I'll say about just my investment career thus far.

Andrew Stotz 08:18
It's interesting, I remember hearing somebody describe it is like going to a kindergarten class with 50 kids and trying to pick the one that's going to be most successful.

David Segura 08:28
That's about right. That's about right. And that's why power law takes over. But you know, not gonna dodge your question. That's the whole point of this show. It's hard hitting, it's unique. I like it all talks about that. And I'm gonna explain it in detail. I believe in being transparent, so I will be. But I want to say the obvious that I'm very responsible for this, I own it. There's actually no hard feelings, believe it or not, I'm still friends with the founder. And I respect the company. And I'll basically be as detailed as I can. But years ago, I made an investment, I believe the first one is in 2017. And also did a pretty material follow on in 2018, with a company based here in New York, called a Rumi. And that's spelled are Oh, am I, you know, for your listeners, basically, to get some context. Obviously, folks in the US might be familiar with them, they might not be. But they also have a pretty large European business as well. The best kind of comparison I can give you all is that there's a UK company called Sparrow. And the basic concept, very similar to the United States is Greg's LIS business is that you are can be expensive. You know, Los Angeles even is expensive. If you happen to have an apartment, or even a home you love, but for whatever reason, your roommate decided they needed to move, maybe they're getting married, and they just want to move out. You don't necessarily want to give up that place, at the same time that you might not be able to afford it on your own. So what Rumi did, and I think it's brilliant. Frankly, I still think it's brilliant is that they decided Craigslist and all these other tools are just too inefficient. We're going to build a platform, a marketplace really markets A lot of it. So it appeals to especially millennials and Gen Z. And we're going to give them a safe, transparent option where people can rent out that spare room, and they can do it just on our platform. And the genesis of that business I thought was amazing. The founder was brilliant, and amazing immigrant actually from India. And he really had that kind of like unique energy, willing to work all night, do almost anything. And in my opinion, honestly, the best presenters and you know, kind of like pitchers in the business, and he won and deserves, you know, all the accolades that he got for being able to, like, do what he did, and raise the money that he did, especially being a first time founder in his first early and then mid 20s.

Andrew Stotz 10:42
Wow. So interesting. Yeah.

David Segura 10:46
So basically, when I think about roomy, brilliant concept, huge market, you know, sky's the limit. And not only did I believe in the company so much, but just to throw it out there, I was friends with AJ the founder, and was eventually convinced to actually come on board. So not only be an investor in the company, but just to show you how serious I was. And again, I don't want to like, you know, return, it's not the case, I was such a big believer that I joined the chief strategy officer. And I was responsible then for not only the good, but especially, you know, the bad that happened later on. And I think looking back in it, part of the reason this investment was so challenging, it wasn't just the money I put in, and you know, like losing it, that happens, I can live with that. It was more like the mistakes that we made as a company and as a group. And I kind of feel what happened with Rumi in part is that the growth is almost like so rapid, you know, so spectacular in some ways, it led us to get including me raising my hand, a less discipline than we should have been maybe overly expanding into different geographies. Increasingly increasing it in other cities. And basically the key to marketplaces, you know, probably better than anyone is liquidity. We had that New York, we were becoming like, you know, something everyone knew in a certain age group. It's amazing dominate New York, it's a horrible place to start. But when we raised our Series A, and again, I mean this respectfully, cuz I thought they're brilliant, too. But our kind of series, a lead investor, you know, was British. And even though this sounds a little crazy, they wanted us badly to expand and devote a lot of that capital to get to get to London, essentially, as soon as possible. Even though all the data indicated that we should double, even triple down in New York. And if we contemplated any sort of geographic expansion, it should be to Los Angeles, not internationally. And to take responsibility for that, you know, the investment basically, I thought that point was at risk. I remember actually having one of those kind of like, cinematic moments, talking to AJ batty in our office in New York, and thinking this is wrong is not a good strategic decision, we got to push back in, in the end for a number of reasons. We didn't enough he didn't. And we kind of just went with the flow. And as a result of that, I think kind of basically put the company on a path, but was hard to predict. But looking back on it that really was kind of like the moment if you will, where had we done things maybe differently? Had we even have like a fight, if you will think we would have won? You know, the investors are not there to run the company, but ultimately didn't work out.

Andrew Stotz 13:18
And did you eventually go to London and didn't work? Or was what was that? How did it end?

David Segura 13:24
Yeah, so basically, you know, we raised $12 million in this series A rounds. So it wasn't a small amount of money, it may not be the same as a public company. But for a startup, especially one in New York, which you know, it's not exactly Silicon Valley's still growing at a time especially it was a lot. And we use a significant amount of that capitalized, say, to expand internationally. So not just London, but other places as well. And the issue there is that it was just very hard to get like people to basically list their spare rooms and their capacity. And this is also my fault, too. Again, I want to take responsibility, not putting it on the Rumi team, because I was part of the rugby team, that's again, how much conviction I had in my own investment. You know, we weren't as familiar honestly, with the regulations, maybe as we could have been. And so as a consequence of that, I think we underappreciated just how serious the market is there, as they call letting and London is a very different animal than New York. I don't want to say this too loudly. But honestly, you can push the envelope a little bit. In the United States, there is some extent at least a celebration almost of entrepreneurs, pushing the envelope and there's a ton of allowance. In London, not so much. There's fines, there's forfeitures, there's a lot of things that, you know, we realized early on that we were gonna have to adapt. And what I can tell you is it just didn't convert as well. So a good amount of that investment, I wouldn't say was wasted. We use different things that like, in theory, were worthwhile, but ultimately just didn't perform the way that we expected it to. In other words, it didn't perform like it did in New York.

Andrew Stotz 14:49
Yeah. So how would you describe the lessons that you've learned from this experience?

David Segura 14:54
You know, there's a lot of lessons you know, both for myself, obviously, as an investor and I'll try to focus on that And then also some observations because I know a lot of your listenership, you know, doozy, Asika business, you know their careers, but a lot of them probably also like technology startups, whether they're involved with them or not, they're interested on the company side, I'd say this and me as part of that, we kind of, to some extent, let it get to our head some, in other words, looking back in it, one of the things I wish we would have done is slow it down some doesn't mean we have to grow slow, it just means we should have been more deliberate with some of those plans. Right. And had we done that, you know, we would have pushed, but I think we would have done so in a more constrained way. And that would have been more sustainable. And so looking back on it, just by increasing the burn rate, things like that put us on a tough path. The second part of this, and again, I take responsibility, you know, definitely not passing the buck. But AJ, again, who I respect, tremendous entrepreneur. And the funny part is that I'm actually eager to back his next company, he's that good. And I think he's definitely learned the lessons. So just to put it in the context how the relationship is, I'll throw that out there. But you know, I've been there too, you know, a 20, something year old, whether it's a PC or not male founder, and I've noticed this is true, if you're American, German, doesn't matter. It's all the same. Not everyone, but most men in their 20s. Me included, when I started, my first company, just, you know, can have a hard time somewhat admitting that they don't know. Or even I'm a little scared. And maybe that lack of openness can somehow lead to like an environment where people don't really feel they have the ability to, you know, or slow down. And so as a consequence of that, I kind of urge everyone, you know, in the Listening kind of community, to just kind of like, test yourself, push yourself, regardless of your age, you know, are you being open minded? Have you created a culture where people feel empowered to speak their truth, regardless of their seniority? And if the answer is it, you know, I understand sometimes that's rational, but I'm telling you, at least in a startup environment, where there's already so many like risks that you don't even know that are present, you're more likely to kind of torpedo stay to the ground. So that's one thing I would say as well.

Andrew Stotz 17:01
Maybe I'll, I'll share some of my thoughts on it. You, I wrote down a bunch of stuff as you were going, you know, one of the things is that I wrote down is about growth. And, you know, you talked about, you know, maybe we should have slowed down some a little bit, you know, and I think that it's hard, because, you know, the whole objective of a business is to grow, because growth means people want your product. So we got to embrace growth. But man, you see so many companies growing beyond the capacity of the operations to deliver what it is that they're promising. And that just brings in trouble. So I would say, that's a great lesson from that perspective to that growth, in and of itself is not everything. It's got to be quality, growth, growth that you can, you know, build on. So that's the first thing. The second thing is that, you know, it's funny, because you one of the things I always tell startups when they come and pitch to me is I'd say, because they're all basically they're going to come and they're going to say the same thing. In Thailand, in particular, they're going to say, here's how we're going to get the market in Thailand. And I always say the same thing. I'm not interested in how you're going to get the market in Thailand. I'm interested in how you're going to get the market in another country, how you're going to get the market globally, because if it's just a Thai startup, I mean, what's the point? And so that's my challenge to them. And that's hard, you know. And now, what I'm I have to think about now, because you've just, you know, you've just explained a story that will wait a minute, that raise some complexity. Now, of course, the way to do that probably is to, I'll explain a story of what what I did with one of the businesses that I'm invested in, we have a coffee factory in Thailand, run by my best friend Dale, we've been running for about 27 years, and we supply, you know, hotels, coffee shops, and we had a opportunity to expand to Vietnam. And we thought that, hey, this could be good for profit wise, but also we build a platform across Southeast Asia, more valuable, blah, blah, blah. And so we went and decided Dale would look into it. So he went to Vietnam met the different people. It was definitely an opportunity to partner with a big brand, which was good. There was a lot of good parts of it. But what we did is Dale came back after a few months, and we agreed to meet on a Monday on that Monday, we talked at nighttime, we sat in the office, and he presented the growth story and the opportunity, basically. And he presented it, you know, as best as he could. And, you know, opportunity wasn't that huge. I was smaller than I thought. But still, you know, it was interesting. And then after that, we went and had dinner, and after dinner we went on and then we agreed to be meet next Monday. So we met the next Monday and we had agreed that what we would talk about the next Monday is the risk. We separated the discussion on return and risk. So then we went back and then the two of us had kind of permission to discuss everything going wrong without feeling like it's an assault on Dale's forecasts and all that. And in the end, we realized that the risk is too high. We'd spend that money expanding into northern Thailand, we could expand into some other areas that we had that we knew the risk of capturing that revenue was much lower. And so it just makes me think that no matter whether you are going internationally, or you're going, you know, you mentioned about expanding in New York and LA, that type of thing, you know, take the time to look at the risk and return and I I tell people to just try to separate those two things. The other thing, you know, I wrote down is, the most important thing, when you're starting up is just don't make the wrong mistake. I can see that when people on I tell people that you have an Andrew, what's the wrong mistake, and I'm like, I don't know what the wrong mistake is in your business. But ultimately, it's like, don't get knocked out. Stay standing. And there's that great story of Muhammad Ali when he was in his third fight with Joe Frazier. And they were going into the 15th, round. Frazier one, the first one, Ali won the second fight, and now they're toe to toe, they've been battering each other for 14 rounds. It's hard to say who's gonna win this in the 15. Ollie tells his trainer, cut off my gloves, I quit. His trainer says no, you got I won't do it, you've got to go back in. And he said, no cut off my gloves, I can't take it anymore. And then what happened in a couple of seconds later, Frazier's side, forfeited, they threw in the towel. And that's where you really comes down to inches and seconds, you've got to stay in the game, you've got to have the capital and the runway to stay in the game. The last thing that I want to say is, it reminded me when I think about being young and confident, and you know, it's harder to take feedback. And you know, you feel like you've got to be confident. But I always told my student now I've taught finance for 30 years. And when I go into my class, I tell my students, if you leave my class, feeling less confident, I have succeeded. And I think that for a lot of young people, that's really disheartening. But in the world of finance, it's not physics, it's not the law of gravity, there are no laws, you know, it is a totally human based endeavor. And you can have all the formulas in the world and it doesn't mean that you got the answer. And I think that that's where that's what I would say to a young person nowadays is, you know, be okay, with having less confidence, and then build that confidence over time. Anything you would add, I, I spoke a lot, because I just had a lot of things that resonated with me, but it's anything you would add to that.

David Segura 22:53
You know, there's different ways to kind of tackle, you know, and scale any company. But I think one thing is kind of true is that you kind of know, deep down what the big problem slash opportunity is. And I think to some extent, just for our listeners, because I know it sounds a little esoteric, maybe roomy makes sense. Maybe spare room makes sense. But another somewhat similar business with a different model is Airbnb. Airbnb obviously caters more towards vacationers, you know, people going on holiday, that kind of thing. But they also tackled in one, their leakage problem. And what I mean by that is that people once they get to know each other, especially get comfortable saying, Hey, we don't need to pay on this platform. I know it offers insurance, but you trust me, let's just take it offline. Now, Airbnb is still what from what I understand I know some of the early team very, very annoyed that they think they lose about 10% of their overall revenue, perhaps even the profit opportunity to leakage. What they didn't know. And I guess no one knows until now is that it was probably the inverse for us, we were losing probably closer to like 80 90% of the row while read the opportunity to people basically taken offline. Now the reason behind that, at least at that point was to live with someone, especially long term more than 30 days requires a lot of trust. So inevitably, we connect them to facilitate these meetings on the platform. But they all want to meet each other and coffee shop, stuff like that. Once that happened, I guess one or two meetings was enough to engender that. And even though we were offering and trying really hard to offer them insurance, all these things we thought made the transaction safer. Most people kept taking it offline. Now, I'll be the first to tell you that I still don't know completely what that answer was. But I do know looking back on it that that was the problem that between like us and the executive level, and our kind of like, you know, brilliant product team. We should have just as long as it took kept testing kept doing different calls to action kept probing users until we cracked it because once we cracked that it would have been completely off to the races because everybody did like the product. And everybody was finding amazing roommate living situations in New York through our product. So one thing I guess I'd say is that You kind of know deep down in your heart, whatever you want to call it, what the thing that you need to do every day is, don't put it off, there's a million things you can do maybe get away with it maybe even works. But the truth is, if you ignore the elephant in the room, you'll probably regret it. And so when I think about that, too, that was also part of like, our journey, and I think where Rumi kind of went awry, you know, isn't the best one.

Andrew Stotz 25:20
Yeah, for the listeners out there. I think this is really great part of this interview. And that is, you know, life is not meant to be super complicated. If you find yourself in a situation where you really everything's really complicated, something's wrong. And what you're telling us, which I think is super valuable, is that we know what most of the problems are in our life, the big ones, you know, okay, I'm not exercising enough, or I'm not calling my friends enough and building my relationships, and I'm getting lonely. You know, this is not we're not doing enough spend on marketing. We know if maybe it's the operations are falling down, we're getting the sales, but we're not delivering. Come on, everybody knows. So that is a great lesson in this podcast, in this interview, from my perspective, to take us back to simplicity. And just identify that problem, maybe it's just a matter of writing it down, having a meeting and talking about it, but don't put it off is the message I'm getting from you. And I think that's fabulous advice.

David Segura 26:33
So appreciate that. Yeah.

Andrew Stotz 26:35
So based upon what you learn from this story, and what you continue to learn in your life, what would be one action that you'd recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate? And maybe, you know, depends, I'm not sure where to start. That could be when you first looked at the business, or it could be when you're in the business. But think about that person that's entering into the same type of situation. What's one piece of advice?

David Segura 27:00
Yeah, just kind of narrow down and focus, you know, like, it seems like boring, a little bit vanilla. But I think when you're looking at this investment or any other, when you think about the growth trajectory, and I think unlike other investments, like it's kind of hard, for example, to influence Elon Musk at Tesla, I'm a happy investor, even every day is a roller coaster up and down. But there's realistically only so much you can do. On the flip side with startups, whether you're the founder, or you're an angel investor, or even a VC in their company, there's actually a fair amount you can do there is you get you have a lot of influence with those guys. And so when I look back at like, Hey, you want to avoid my fate, you want to like, basically not seen investment go from x all the way, just completely down, evaluate what they're doing, be honest with them and yourself. And then by all means, just try to figure out ways, like you said, to minimize risk. And a lot of times, that means just to focus. And I think if you do that this company would have been more successful, I think you cross apply that to almost any company. I've never known a company that benefited from over expanding initially.

Andrew Stotz 28:00
Alright, so what's one resource that you recommend for our listeners?

David Segura 28:05
So there's really two things that I really kind of believe in very strongly networking, I really do think people love talking about their stories in themselves. So whether that means you got to find someone online or in real life, just ask, you'd be surprised. Most people 80% of them are more than willing to kind of pass on like their wisdom and their guidance, in addition to also their Follies. And I think you can learn from that. The second thing is, and it's not always popular in ancient everything digital. And it's ironic, because I'm obviously a digital guy myself, but I'm a big believer in reading. So I'm sure that can be inaudible that can be on a Kindle. But almost every problem that you have, whether it's personal or business, in my personal experience has been written down something very close to it has already been solved or tackled, and approached. And I remember when someone told me that many years ago, I thought about that. And I found that to be completely true. So it can be tedious. I know, it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I encourage everyone just to read as much as possible. Even if you only do it for 30 minutes a day, force yourself to do it, you're stressed out, do it, you know, kind of family like you know, commitments, etc. I get it still. And I think as long as someone does that, that's the best way to kind of expedite learnings.

Andrew Stotz 29:13
Yeah, and it's, it's, it's a compounding, you know, effect. I look up, I'm just building a new bookshelf on my wall. And it's full of books, probably 700 books here. And I've read 1000s of books, and I look at the top shelf. And what I have is about 50 books on the US Civil War I just got interested in and I started reading, and all of that information now is in my head. It's amazing. And then I can think of, you know much more deeply about that time, that period of time and what can we learn from that? So really, really support that idea of reading. Alright, last question. What's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

David Segura 29:50
Hmm I want to grow glassbox media into at least in the US household name. I want us to be like the company People think of Creators Podcast hosts, when they want help when they want to scale the revenue and scale their audience are thinking about the best way to do that.

Andrew Stotz 30:08
Fantastic. And, well, you're on your way with us, myself and my, my crew are gonna check it out. So listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet taken the risk reduction assessment, I challenge you now, to go to my worst investment ever.com and start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. As we conclude, David, I want to thank you again for joining our mission. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

David Segura 30:46
Thank you for having me. I hope you got something out of this.

Andrew Stotz 30:49
Well, we definitely did. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth. Remember, ladies and gentlemen, this podcast is about one guest. One story, one mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.