Ep508: Kamal Karanth – Work on Improving Your Relationships

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. To reduce risk in your life, go to my worst investment ever.com today and take the risk reduction assessment I've created from the lessons I've learned from more than 470 guests. It's time you start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest Kamal Quran. Come on, are you ready to join the mission?

Kamal Karanth 00:49
Absolutely, let's do it.

Andrew Stotz 00:51
Yeah, so let me explain to the audience a little bit about you. Kamal, is the co founder of X fino, a spat stash specialist staffing company, that he has been building since 2017. He also co founded the Indian staffing Federation, a prominent voice for labor reforms in India. Kamal has been named as one of LinkedIn top voices in 2020. He's a columnist, a blogger, a vlogger. And host weekly live sessions about workplace dynamics. He's a fitness enthusiast, and movie buff, come on claims relationships to find careers, and believes all of us can do much better. On the relationship front, that's quite a challenge. Come on, take a minute and tell us a bit about the value you bring to this world.

01:50
The single most value that I think I have any thing that I've observed experience and want to provide to anybody is, like I said, in my bio Andrew very well, about the value of relationships, whatever we want to achieve in our life, and how we measure. One thing that I think goes with everybody else measures is how do you how do you leave the world. And we possibly leave the world with or without relationships. And for me, the only thing that I bring is that I bring the consciousness of relationship I live that I struggled with that. And I urge everybody to pay attention focus to the world of relationship, because in the world of transactions and materialistic gains and opportunities that we are after, in the end, when we are going to be the last, what we'll be left with are the relationships that that's the barrier. But

Andrew Stotz 02:43
it's very fascinating that you're talking about relationships in this way, when you're really talking about work. And it would seem that relationships are that just do my job, why does the relationship matter? And I'll just highlight, you know, my own experience, I grew up in a philosophy that said, hard work pays, do the hard work, and you're going to get compensated. And, and I had a real smack in the face. As I started to progress through my corporate career that I realize just locking yourself in your room and doing the hard work and thinking that you're going to get compensated for that is just nonsense, unless you're an absolute genius, which you know, very few people are. And I learned the value of relationships. So I'm just curious if you could just highlight a little bit about, you know, that's my own experience, where I really came to an awareness, but just tell us about relationships when it comes to work.

Kamal Karanth 03:46
Like rightly said, Andrew and I, I was always coached, at least by my first boss that, you know, I was a sales guy, so about how you need to work harder, you know, and how he worked harder, and how he grew the ladder, and they showed many people as to Oh, you go six o'clock in the market, you will find this gentleman there. That is his work. You know, and so that was read throughout the night. Of course, the Indian academic system is also such that my parents tell us that oh, look at that gentleman. And that kid in the next block gets up at 4am. You know, So, always we put a high premium, very high emphasis around studying hard making and scoring more marks just because you put efforts, right our teachers in a school also sort of put that emphasis on hard work, per se. But I think when I looked at the success and the lack of success in some of the students, as I got into the world of work, I realized that yes, that is what the boss is telling. But in the world that I've lived, I came in sales. So in sales, as much as I worked for a fortune 500 company, marquee products that discovery of insulin to the world All the things said and done, I realize that never gave me any, you know, fast landing in terms of the work that a job my first job. So I started to disbelieve whatever my managers say, because what are they telling was not working? Right. So for me, I think my first job was a kind of a starting point to say, hey, you can work as hard as you could, because I used to get up at 430. And I was in the market by about eight o'clock with the first customer and possibly went home only by 930 10, every day. And they were when I used to call on doctors, remember, they were doctors used to be at 130 in the night, you know, so it was inhuman, but ya know, if I wanted you as a top doctor, so you wait, and, you know, meet him. And so that was the world that I was brought in by my company, my managers say, you work this hard, you get promoted. But for six months, I realized that that was not giving me success. And as some success came my way, when I sat back and reflect and realize, Oh, why does this gentleman like me is giving me a business. So went through the process of discovering that he liked me, because we had a connect through cricket. We know we both enjoyed cricket. So we spoke about that another gentleman who was who with whom I was connecting with you like because we used to connect on movies, you know, so there's something on the other that we were doing. And another gentleman I went, you know, I estimate in the evening temples on the weekends. So they were one thing or the other, which was connecting me to some of these people, which made us different than a transactional relationship of a sales rep was as a customer. And as time spent, and we were able to interact things beyond my product and his need, or her need, we realized that we were connecting as individuals. And as the connection built, then the transaction became easy. Hey, look, I'm selling this insulin. And would you like to try please try, you didn't have to do a hard sell, because the comfort of the individual was there. So in my view, that's where I learned in the professional world for the first time that relationships gives you success. And in about a year's time from then I was among the top 20 sales guys in Eli Lilly, which was a top pharmaceutical company.

Andrew Stotz 07:12
That's a great lesson for the listeners out there. I know I have a lot of listeners in India, in fact, where they are under a lot of pressure from parents and in the academic system. I know throughout Asia, we have a lot of pressure like that. And, you know, this, this gives a good perspective for all of us to think about. Don't just spend time, you know, working all the time spend time building those relationships, well, now, it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to an intelligence your story.

Kamal Karanth 07:47
Absolutely, I do. And it is a continuation of what I just started, you know, it wasn't my first job. And as successful as I was, you know, in my start, like I said, if I was in the top, I was number 17, among 200 sales guys in the country. And as on top of the world. And as you know, as you become a top sales guy, the manager tells you, you can be a manager, you know, and that is the next step, right? So, in about 18 months into my job, I put up my hand and said, Hey, I want to be a manager, and attended the managerial interviews and went on to become a manager, I had those days, Aesop's worth half a million rupees coming my way, year and a half later, you know, so I was in that category of people that the company had invested in. So at that time, I said, Look, I'm doing so well, I want to be an area manager. And I got promoted, I did all the interviews and went on to a new territory, I was in South India, I went to work in a place which is very close to Taj Mahal, though, in the same state called Lucknow. So I took up that job as an area manager. And suddenly, I realized that I had to work even harder. You know, because you are managing six people, some a couple of them appears that means they had entered the workforce along with be my own batchmates. So there were news tests that are being put into and I was in a new term three speaking a language though it is natural, we never spoke that language might not form so which was in the soap, or your food, the food that you consume was different. So the whole lot of thing that travel was constant. So you know, used to get up at 430, pack your bags, take a tray and go to another place. I don't know when I was an officer kind of winter in South India, you know. So it was it used to be very, very cold and there are seasonal changes and not where it's very hot, it can get 4045 degrees and various to chill including two degrees, three degrees kind of situation, we will never have it throughout the year in Bangalore, we are 20 degrees to 30 degrees, very blessed. So there was a weather change. There was a role change, and most importantly, food and the cultural change. Everybody spoke Hindi, right? So With a travel job managing other people's expectation, mostly I'm workforce. So I did what came to be naturally. You know, what parents taught me what my bosses told me, the World card lead by example, people will follow you. So I used to travel in a trust, you know, central Lucknow up and North India, that point of time really worked hard. You know, I think, what, almost 1415 hours a day, no weekends, that was my job, no movies, no cricket, there's only work. And at the end of one year, I was sort of breaking down. I was breaking down because the results are not happening. Remember, I was among the top 20 sales guys. That's why I got promoted results not happening. My boss was unhappy with me. You know, and my own report is wanted to transfer out of my own, you know, team, you know, one after we went to Canada, a couple of them actually went off. So, you know, in a year's time, I was seeing my own team moving. They're not leaving the company, but they're leaving me and going elsewhere are doing very well. Right. So that is a time when eventually, no, my boss came and said, Look, this is not working. Are you sure this is the job that you walk? I said, Hey, I start working. So what do we do? He said, I suggest we move on. So I said, Yeah, and in about a year and a half, I let go my million rupees. Aesop's resigned from the company, and sat at home for about three months not knowing what to do. You know, I was looking for a job because I was the sole breadwinner for my parents. And I had a brother who was going to school but I was just being short of fire I left the company I possibly could have pursued but I had lost it in me that I can be successful in this company. So if you asked me that one and a half years, I say it is the worst investment because I had to take a million rupees at the end of one and a half years, build a house or half of the cost or have peace in Bangalore, which most of my peers did. But I ran out of the job and got out. And almost next six months, I was in the kind of depression, thinking I didn't know the top sales guy goes into the job, spent one and a half years working 1516 hours a day. And then I possibly came home only once to meet my parents during the time especially my sister's wedding I came I sacrificed so much without being with family. I got what did I get? I was jobless, add more debts for three months before I found my next job. It took me six months to get out of the shop. But the most successful sales guy failed as a manager.

Andrew Stotz 12:30
So what lessons did you learn from this experience?

Kamal Karanth 12:35
I left my hat behind. I said in my first one and a half is a sales guy. What gave me success was relationships. But when I became a manager, it was in my head that I am so successful as a sales guy, you know that I think I believed so much in the skills that I had that if I work hard, if I you know, the general attributes, the manager expected you lead by example, be everywhere do work. No more than your team members, I lead to the most important part that my team would have possibly worked smarter. If, if at all being transactional, I had relationships with each one of them. I did not spend enough time making relationship with my boss, you know, who was possibly 100 meters away staying from my house, I could see him every weekend. But mostly I did transactions, I didn't manage the relationship with Him. Similarly, with my peers who I thought brought a lot in terms of perceptions about me when I'm not in the room. You know, I never spent time on there, somebody called me mad at others, I never took my own initiative me. So I'm not talking about customers here because I met customers through my team. And I somehow felt that the members that I had possibly did not feel that relationship with me my Boston female relationship, my peers didn't feel the relationship, because I became extremely transactional because the successful sales guide has been packed running in a silo. And that also is a time where I my relationship with friends didn't exist because of distance, whatever. But I didn't take any initiative to be in touch with them. So in a world, I created a loner out of myself. And my ticket to success was relationships. But once I reached that most coveted position that I wanted for the first 18 months of my job, once I reached there, I think I gave up on relationships. And so I think when I got into the job, I told myself, whatever happens in my life, this is one act I will continue. It's been almost 20 years since I quit that place. I think if I tell myself something almost 25 years I tell myself one thing is I will every job I've done even as an entrepreneur today with my people, my co founder my customers, the one thing that I asked myself is am I building a relationship here? Versus seeking a favor seeking a transaction asking for something versus building an unconditional relationship? Not all related. internships are unconditional. But there is a mindset with which I go because that four and a half years of that investment I made, where I got nothing, except that I almost got sacked and sat on that for three months without a job has taught me that that hat is something I missed, and I never missed it after that even months in my life.

Andrew Stotz 15:19
Maybe I'll share a few things that this makes me think of the first thing that I want to share is the great quote by Will Rogers in America. And he said, when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. And, you know, when we think we're able to solve it by just hard to work and all that, you know, sometimes we just have to stop digging. That's the first one. The second one is that, you know, never underestimate, we like to feel confident that we can solve any problem, you know, that we have the resources and all that. But never underestimate how these many different changes that can happen to your life can have a big impact. You know, I mean, simple thing, like you just said, cuisine, food, the temperature being in a different environment. From most people that don't understand India, they would say, What do you mean a different language? Right. So these things, these environmental factors are, can play a very, very serious role. That just make it difficult. And then meanwhile, you're trying to do a completely different job. And I would just end by saying that one of the things that, that I've learned in over the years is that many people who are technically good at their job, decided they're going to go become a manager, and they didn't realize that that is a completely different job, you know, then it's just like starting up a company, it's a completely different job than being a specialist in a particular area. Anything you would add to those comments?

Kamal Karanth 16:56
No, I think you're spot on, you're definitely spot on in terms of how we underestimate the subtle changes that, you know, that we have gone through and think that it's the same playground that we play, you know, so only I'm saying all these things on hindsight, but yeah, it's a different language, different temperature, different role, different place. But at that point of time, I was working for the same company, you know, so from that day to now I think those subtle changes, which are external, not in your control, you know, paying attention to that is something that I would like to add.

Andrew Stotz 17:29
So let's go back to my mission, my mission is to help a million people reduce risk in their life, let's think about that young man or woman wherever they are in the world, who are presented with an opportunity to change their job to get a promotion to move to another district, and they're debating the pros and cons of that move. So I want to ask you this question with those people in mind, based upon what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn. What one action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Kamal Karanth 18:02
Most importantly, we all plan for the best. And that is when I think we fall short when it is. So I think every time we take up a new job, new role, new country, as it happens, I think we should tell ourselves that it's not going to get better flows. Now. So I think the expectation that we set them ourselves that I am set for success sets us up for failure. Because till you, and if you're not putting you on in your head, that it's going to be tough, then you know, you're going to be for a shock. I think in my head, my experience said that I'm going to wing it. I never budgeted for anything, what could go wrong? So what I would say is anything that you take up, including the new course, if you're just entering into that, think of it that it could have, you know, its moments, and you know, and what would you do? What would you do if it becomes tougher than you thought, right? So I never had those imaginations. And that's how it became a worst investment for me. But I would urge everyone, and that's what I do when I become an entrepreneur to that. And he says that what could go wrong. And when those moments came, I was better prepared. It's not that I took it, I embraced it with open arms, but I took it better than I ever was.

Andrew Stotz 19:18
So ladies and gentlemen, that's great advice from Kamal, I think, you know, a lot of times when we're young, we're taught to kind of don't doubt yourself, just think positive, you can do it. But what he's telling us is that you've got to look at the pros and cons. When you're looking at an opportunity and accept the fact that there are risks there. There are things that could go wrong. Now, what's one resource that you would recommend for our listeners?

Kamal Karanth 19:46
I don't know what what they do for listen, but I guess if you're listening and you're the kind of person that will because you You seem like a person or a listener because you're into this podcast, so I presume if you're doing so Something that I would recommend is Yeah, I think read up some of the books on one book that I always recommend everyone who's in the professional world his book called outstanding by John Mueller. I think it's an easy read, I think about 10 pages each you finish a chapter, it gives you a concept and very practical one that you can go and implement different managers, CEOs. And people are all in relationships, I would recommend the book called necessary endings. Okay. Set by Henry Cloud. I think it is not about ending, it's about beginning. So I think these are my go to and I keep reading them very frequently. It's a great refresher, these two books that I would recommend to people and people, our listeners, I definitely go to HBr podcast, you know, they're right there cast is a brilliant series every week, you get one, I think, like 25 minutes. Every 25 minutes, I listen, I write about five blocks, because I get back many ideas when I listen to that.

Andrew Stotz 20:59
So that's a lot of great advice. Ladies and gentlemen, I'll have it all linked in the show notes, including Kamal, his website and his LinkedIn so you can reach out last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Kamal Karanth 21:17
Sure, next 12 months I definitely, on the personal front want to ensure that I bring back my fitness levels. And also that is my goal. So I think a plus six months I've been that sort of God My ways of doing different things and not following a routine and the fitness enthusiast I claim to be. So that's definitely want to break into that. And to ensure that all some of the people who might left behind in this journey of entrepreneurship might not spoken to not spend time on, they all meant something to me, I just want to look at my phone number. They must be here because of the reason. And all the people who did not get a text did not get the new air which I think I will bring them back to my routine. So this is what I want to do as a person for the next 12 months.

Andrew Stotz 22:06
Fantastic. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet taken the risk reduction assessment, that I challenge you to go to my worst investment ever.com Right now, and start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. As we conclude, Kamal, I want to thank you again for joining our mission. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Kamal Karanth 22:41
And it has been an absolute pleasure and thank you all for staying on to this podcast and listening to me. I'm all I would leave you with this. relationship matters. Stay on.

Andrew Stotz 22:52
Right on. Well, that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth. Remember, ladies and gentlemen. This podcast is about one guest. One story. One mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.