Ep504: Amit Kumar – Offer Feedback in the Right Environment

Andrew Stotz 00:01
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever, stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risks but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. To reduce risk in your life, go to my worst investment ever.com today and take the risk reduction assessment I have created from the lessons I've learned from more than 470 guests. It's time you start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz from a Stotz Academy and I'm here with featured guests. I met Kumar, I met Are you ready to join our mission? Yes, already? Yeah. Let me introduce you to the audience. I met Kumar is CEO of Oh, Alex autos in India. He is an entrepreneur, a business leader, and a speaker. After his humble beginnings, amid graduated from the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, and built multiple internet, e commerce ventures in Asia, Africa, and Europe. He is a regular contributor on leadership, entrepreneurship and economics. He is passionate about human evolution, and is a psychology geek, huh, I met take a minute and tell us a bit about the value that you bring to the world.

Amit Kumar 01:29
It's an interesting question. And I remember this from Stanford graduate MBA essay that you need to write. And the subject of that essay, if I remember it, correctly, is what matters to you the most. And it's a compelling subject in which you have to really think about yourself, and then answer it. And my simplistic answer to your question, and to myself is, I think being a good human being at a very simplistic, and core level is the value that I bring to the world. I think, being respectful of others, doing your own part, and giving back to the society. I've been fortunate, blessed that I've, I've gotten so much personally. Happy Family, doing well, professionally. I think not all of us are fortunate enough. And we all of us have to be good human beings, each other, share what we have. And that's what I bring to the world.

Andrew Stotz 02:51
That's beautiful. I remember reading a book and it told me to ask people around me what they thought of me and what they liked, what they didn't like, what I did, well, what I didn't. And I remember asking my mom, you know, what do you like about me? And she said, I like that you're, you're kind to everybody you meet.

Amit Kumar 03:07
That's, that's, that's, that's so simple, and so inspiring, right?

Andrew Stotz 03:13
I mean, it just tears me up even thinking about it right now. My mother's in the other room. It's Thanksgiving today that we're recording this on November 25. And we're having a party with friends coming here in Bangkok. And we're having a good time. But it just reminds me, you remind me to bring it back to simplicity. So ladies and gentlemen, there is a lesson from MIT right there. Keep it simple, be a good human being. Now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking will be tell us a bit about the circumstance leading up to it, then tell us your story.

Amit Kumar 03:52
So Andrew, this is not a quote unquote, normal investment story where you put in money and do not make enough money to make it a good investment. I look at investment from the lens of time, people. And as a result, you get money to invest. And to me, people and relationship investments are the most crucial and critical ones. And here I'm talking about my initial journeys, you know, in one of the companies and we were building the business going really fast. And then we hired a really smart person X consultant, top pedigree, top colleges, sharp operational mind and as a part of the leadership team. I really like that individual for the driver and the analytical buildup that he brought on the table. I personally started to invest my time in mentoring that individual, because it was in my interest to grow the business, if the individual's grow, the business grows and goes to the next level. And I would have done that for a year, year and a half plus working with the individual growing the business, the business got almost to 10x. In that period, we all grew. And at some point in time, that individual found another opportunity to go to. And at that moment, we were in a party in a pub late night, probably his send off party. And then we were he used to smoke, and we were in the smoking room. And, you know, because I was so invested. And at, I would say on friendly terms with him, I thought, let me share some of the feedback that can help this individual improve and do even better job at the places that he's going to. And I shared a few not so easy and difficult things about that individual on, let's say, some of the parts where he lacked the ownership in the things that he did, and I had to really make up for it. And while the party ended, and we all came back, happily home late that night, but suddenly, I found that that individual almost shut me down and he was moving into a different organization anyways. So I discounted it for the, for the movement, hustle, etc. But I, after a few months, I realized that that individual changed in our relationship, it was so good, just came to a halt or just did not exist the way it did. And I recapped and rewind it and held that feedback responsible for it. It was a sizable investment that I realized just sort of broke down. I had invested a lot of time, and I did not get anything for it. And to me, I think what we carry as individuals is, is our investment into relationships which comes back small multifold. So I was really disappointed with that. I think it's been a almost five years now and me and that individual have reconnected and have started on a positive track. And I will still try and get that investment back on track if I can. But that is one of the worst investments ever.

Andrew Stotz 07:36
Yeah, it's such an interesting topic, let let us first now know a little bit about you know, what you learn from this experience?

Amit Kumar 07:45
I think one big learning for me, has been that feedback cannot be shocking. Feedback has to be gradual. Feedback has to be two way. And maybe the send off party where you're having drinks is not the best place to share your feedback. I think if you are sharing a feedback, choose the right place. And then just do not bombard it the individual or just do not do only that. I think there is a typical shit sandwich theory about the feedback which starts with the good and the bad, and then ends with the good. I think there is some human and psychological rationale to that. But I think the big big learning for me, is that feedback, hard hitting feedback coming in one go. It doesn't work. And it is more damaging than then sort of building.

Andrew Stotz 08:50
Yeah, maybe I'll share a few things. The first one is I just wrote down the word environment in I have a at my home office, I have a boardroom and the boardroom is my balcony with plants and a flowing water. And if I have something that I want to talk to someone about, I said, come to the boardroom, let's sit down on comfortable chairs. And let's just relax and talk. So I think you know, the first thing I take away from it is, you know, set up the environment, right? environment means it's safe. It's just you in them. There's no threat around. That's the first thing. The second thing is, I think when you're giving people advice, you should I want to tell a story when I was when I was a young guy went to work for Pepsi outside of after I left university and I was in Los Angeles and we loaded trucks every night. And all of the loaders had their loading, you know documents and then they load these trucks. We loaded about 100 trucks a night and some of the guys were really good. Some of the guys were not that good. They made a lot of mistakes. One of the guys was really bad and he constantly made mistakes. So one time I sat down to decide I was going to sit down and talk to him, and, and, you know, everybody knew he was the worst. And I showed him and he said, I'm not the worst. I don't make those mistakes. And at that time, I kind of realized that we all see ourselves in a certain way. And that you have to assume that somebody does not see what it is that you're giving feedback on. And it's if you assume that they do see it, well, then you know, you're going to it's going to be difficult. Because, I mean, obviously giving feedback to someone who, who, who is aware of their weaknesses, that's already tough. But if you're going to talk to somebody that's really not aware, then you got to think about how to do that. I think that's part of what I learned from what you were saying about, you know, maybe not doing it all at once, talking about, you know, other things. And so the first thing I mentioned about his environment, the scent, second one is this idea of assuming that they don't really know the feedback you're going to give. And I think if you do that, that's valuable. Now, the third one is that my business partner and I, in my coffee business, Dale, we have a saying that we use called Principles before personalities, and what is the principle, the principle is we are together in this business, to create value for our customers, that also creates value for us and for our employees, and our stakeholders, so that we really, you know, all gain from this, and the personalities can get frustrated with each other. But we have made a commitment that when we start to get into personalities, and that type of frustration, we stop, we step back, and we think about principles before personalities. So those are three things I take away from yours. I like this topic, because I think there's a lot to it. Is there anything else that you would add to that?

Amit Kumar 11:55
I think I would add to that, and I was thinking about it when you were talking about it, I think there is one element around, it's more difficult to give feedback to top performers who are doing almost everything, right? Yeah. And there is this thing about why smart people stop learning, or how smart people stop learning, I think the responsibility lies on both the sides of the manager and that smart person, right? Because you are almost always Reliant and dependent on that person to perform. And hence, at some level, you shy away from sharing the areas of improvement with that individual also, because you are worried, okay, if I break this bad news, what will happen tomorrow. So it's more difficult, and hence, as somebody who needs to share feedback, you need to be more prepared with the pointers that you made around the environment and the setting and the feeling of security for a smart person. And that's one takeaway from

Andrew Stotz 13:06
Yeah, the other thing that made me think about is I have a mastermind or an accountability group we meet every Friday. And, and that's also a way as an individual to receive feedback, that we have an environment that we agree, hey, we're going to talk talk to each other, we're going to push each other we're going to measure we're going to question and then you create an environment that say that's that those are the game rules, so that the ground rules. So that's another you know, thing that you know, you can do. So let me ask you based upon what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn, what action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate and I'm thinking about when some of our listeners is about to give some feedback to they want to give feedback to a strong performer. What should they do?

Amit Kumar 13:56
Yeah, I think as over a period of time, as an individual, I have want I've moved towards a continuous feedback sharing mode. So, feedback is not just about the annual appraisal, it is more about being open to talk about it in your weekly one on ones or monthly one on ones. So, that is one area, which is definitely helpful. The second part is that when you do this feedback sharing, try and put it on paper. So it cannot just be verbal, because as individuals as humans, we have this tendency to dilly dally or sugarcoat. When we are saying things, but when things are put on paper with black ink, they are harder hitting. And if you really have genuine feedback, which is for improved And then it needs to be put on paper. So those would be, let's say two things that I would recommend one continuous feedback to put it on paper.

Andrew Stotz 15:10
Hmm. Interesting. You know, I had a case a long time ago where someone got really upset with some feedback I gave them. And they had kind of come to me to ask for feedback. And then, and it was a little bit strange. So from that moment, many years ago till today, when people come to me and ask for feedback, I think about I let them tell me their story, whatever. And then, and I always say, so you're coming to me for free, but you do want my feedback. So actually get acknowledgement from them that they want it. Yeah. And that basically also says, Okay, you ask for it, here it is. And if they say, No, I'm not looking for it, then even better, it makes my job a lot easier. So what's one resource that you'd recommend for our listeners that could benefit them?

Amit Kumar 16:02
Practice. It's not easy, and it doesn't come naturally, either to take feedback, or give feedback. It's something that we've to orient ourselves to, over a period of time, I have found my structure to getting feedback and sharing feedback. in a corporate environment, what potentially works is anchoring the feedback on the leadership value that the organization has, it helps another simpler and more generic framework to do that could be things that you should start doing things that you should stop doing things that you should continue doing. more generic way of laying down the feedback. And that also works,

Andrew Stotz 16:50
right. That's great, like having a framework. Alright, last question. What's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Amit Kumar 16:58
Continue to become a better human being more healthy person more happy person is my continuing number one goal

Andrew Stotz 17:06
beautiful. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet taken the risk reduction assessment, I challenge you to go to my worst investment ever.com Right now, and start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. Now, as we conclude a minute, I want to thank you again for coming on, and joining our mission. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Amit Kumar 17:40
No, I think it's good to be here and good to be sharing my story. I hope I can help some others.

Andrew Stotz 17:46
Beautiful. Well, you definitely help in your part of the mission now. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth. Remember, ladies and gentlemen, this podcast is about one guest. One story. One mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.