Ep345: Steve Faktor – Take the Risk and Pursue Your Dreams

Andrew Stotz 00:01
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win an investing, you must take risk, but to win big, you've got to reduce it. And I bet you're exposed to investment risk right now. To reduce it, go to my worst investment ever.com and download the risk reduction checklist I've made specifically for you. Based on the lessons I have learned from all the guests I've had on the show. Fellow risk takers, this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest, Steve factor. Steve, are you ready to rock?

Steve Faktor 00:40
Oh, I am so ready. I've never been more ready.

Andrew Stotz 00:42
I can feel it. I really can feel your energy.

Steve Faktor 00:46
Ready? In the least sexual way possible.

Andrew Stotz 00:49
Exactly. Exactly. So like our bicycles when we were kids, new That's right. Yeah, right.

Steve Faktor 00:56
Exactly like a bicycle.

Andrew Stotz 00:58
Yeah. So let me tell the audience a bit about you. And then I think we're gonna have some interesting discussion. Steve factor is a former fortune 100 Executive turn entrepreneur, futurists author of economy, and podcaster as managing director of Idea Factory innovation. He helps tech financial services and consumer goods clients see and build the future. Steve is a LinkedIn influencer with over 750,000 followers. It has been featured in Forbes magazine Harvard Business Review in the Wall Street Journal, just to name a few. He's a popular keynote speaker at major events and numerous Corporation. The MC future podcast features Steve's provocative predictions and prescriptions, as well as guests like Larry King, comedian Jim Jefferies, Governor Jesse Ventura, novalee economists Joseph Stiglitz, former ACLU president Nadine strossen, and megachurch, Pastor AR, Bernard and many, many, many more. Previously, Steve launched multiple $150 million royalty payments and e commerce products and services as head of the American Express chairman's Innovation Fund SVP at Citi ventures VP of strategy and innovation at MasterCard and management consultant at Anderson. Well, Steve, take a minute and tell me further tidbits about your life.

Steve Faktor 02:24
Where do I start? I mean, you did a great job of giving sort of the bullet points, but I guess, you know, do you want me to jump right into the story?

Andrew Stotz 02:37
I want to, I want to, you know, ask you a question because we were talking before. And I think it's a really important thing you talked to me before we turn on the recorder about not really getting disrupted by all the news and everything that's coming at you, but somehow figuring out a way that you have figured out to step back and see a bigger picture. And I think right now we're in an environment where it's so easy to get sucked into just looking at right in front of our face. And maybe you could just tell the audience kind of what you do, and maybe give us some pointers. I'd like to be more like you more strategic, more future looking.

Steve Faktor 03:13
Yeah, you know, one of the things that's key to that, and you know, I, I guess I'm no hero when it comes to this, but I take a lot of the bullets, so my clients don't have to. And what I mean by that is, you know, I am sucking in way too much information. And the three areas that I focus on are economics, innovation, and culture. And I think those are the three things that drive the future. And experts in any one of those fields, as brilliant as they may be, also have a sense of myopia. And you know, especially in the cultural realm, where, you know, the information just flies at you in at insane speeds. And so the sheer volume that exists right now makes it very hard to pick out the trends to pick out what matters from what doesn't matter. So I think the first thing that I do is not react immediately because it's hard not to write because something just triggers whatever it is, you know, and the way that headlines are written the way that clickbait works the way that you know, CNN and Fox and all these guys try to get your attention is they try to, you know, get you all worked up. So the trick is to be dead inside and not react in that way. Not to say that I'm dead inside, although, you know, I'm sure medical professionals might say otherwise. But the idea is to really hold back before you judge, you know, like a good example is you know, whenever a video goes viral, and those videos sometimes are cut up to manipulate you into a certain reaction and to a certain response and that can feed into whatever narrative you have already bought into. And so that is a very dangerous thing. And we all have that impulse. So not allowing someone to, or something to press that button is a muscle that we need to develop. And it's one that I've developed. And you know, and there are people who, you know who have that. But it's not natural, because you know, when you're presented with stimulus that evokes an emotion you react, and I think what those reactions collectively are creating online mobs, those reactions are creating adverse reactions in politics, and, and media. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, is trying to find patterns and piecing things together, as I was mentioning to you, my Twitter feed is not just, you know, yeah, there's a bunch of individual tweets, some are stupid, some are insightful, and a lot of a lot of them are somewhere in between. But the more insightful ones are part of a theme. So you'll see a lot of very long multi year threads, because I'm always adding insights to the storylines. And sometimes those insights invalidate something I believed earlier. So I just started a thread called, I was wrong with that hashtag, because I want to model this behavior, which is the ability to evolve. And that's something no one's getting any credit for, or no one's even trying to do. Because, you know, like, what, you will find something someone said, when they were, you know, 19 years old, and now they're trying to, you know, get a public sector job, or whatever, or they have a job, and someone wants to cancel them. And you're like, they said, when they were 19. And so I think it's important for us to model this evolution that we all go through, and we all should admire, because it's not to say that I'm some, you know, Exalted figure that needs to be admired. But I'm trying to do my small part in acknowledging, hey, you know, and one example is, I didn't know anything about Malcolm X, for example, you know, I, you know, we all go through school, and, you know, we learn that, you know, that one guy's, by any means necessary, and the other guy's the peaceful guy. So everyone chooses the peaceful guy, and MLK, and then, you know, when you educate yourself, and you read some of his writings, and you watch him his videos, you realize how much depth there is to, to this person, you're like, oh, wait a minute, he had something going on that, that I didn't quite understand or look into. So that's an opportunity for me to say, not so much that I was wrong, because I wasn't even educated. So how would I even know that I was wrong, or whatever opinion I had was a malformed relic of a bad education system. So I so I think that creating those patterns, and, and really taking the time to think through what something means in the larger context, and you know, and I look at these three fields, and there's probably other things that I don't look at, like, you know, health care that things that are gone, there's very specific niches, but, but I think if you follow the money, you follow the culture, and you follow the technology, you will lead yourself to the right answers a lot of the time, and you do it over time, and not instantaneously and knee jerk responses?

Andrew Stotz 08:18
Well, that's a lot of a lot to unpack. I mean, one of the things that I would say is that sometimes I do the first, you know, the first thing we talked about is handling the information that comes at us, one way of doing that is to shut it off. So I do shut it off. And in the morning, when I start working, I do not get involved in that. In fact, I don't even check email, except to do a first glance, but then for the rest of the morning, I don't do email. And then the other thing is that I also now come to think that my brain is actually it's everything, everything comes from my brain, and therefore I need to protect what is being bombarded at my brain, every single thing that is coming at me Is someone else, individually or company or government or politician putting something that they want in my brain, and I have to think I have to I have to protect that much more vigorously. I feel like these days. So that's the first thing. Yeah, that, you know, you made me think about the other thing is that, you know, you were talking about changing the way you think about things. And the reality is it happens over time. Sometimes we don't even know. An example is my friend from outside of Cleveland, where I grew up in a little town called Hudson, Ohio. He came to see me, you know, many years later here in Thailand, and we were talking about drugs and getting penalties for drugs in Thailand extreme You know, you're talking about life, you're talking about, you know, practically execution and, and I was so against it, and we talked about and he's like, I can't believe I'm hearing this from you. Because when we were young, you are all about get tough on drugs, get some war on war on drugs and ice and I was like, wow, wow, I didn't even realize how much my mind had changed. And the third thing that You mentioned Malcolm X is The Autobiography of Malcolm X is one of my top 10 books of all times, and I highly recommend it to any listeners, one of the things I found is obviously, he had a lot of, you know, very powerful things to say. But what I, like, there's two things I took away from him. And that was number one, he had an upside down way of thinking, which may actually be right side up, you know, once someone thinks different than you, and you bring that into your world, it makes you question. Yeah, what, what you believe, you know, and he talks about, you know, the white man is the devil. And black is beautiful, and white is evil, you know, and, and just some of those stuffs, and but there was a lot of stuff that he talked about, that just kind of really caught me off guard and made me really respect will also self

Steve Faktor 10:55
reliance is a big theme. And, and, and he is like, don't wait for others to rescue. You have to build your own thing and your own dream. And you have to do it, despite all of these people. And your helpers sometimes are the worst, your worst enemies.

Andrew Stotz 11:14
Exactly. And I can go back to 1987, I went to a mail order place, and I ordered all of his speeches in cassette format, and I got a big thing. And I listened to all of those speeches many times in my car. And really, really, really appreciate what he talked about. And but the other thing is that he also was a man that had the strength to question something that he had came to him with the Nation of Islam, and with, you know, with the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, having kind of disputes and problems that were going on there. And then he took it upon himself to go and investigate and talk to some of the people involved, and then make his own judgment. And he split from the Nation of Islam. Yeah. And that I thought was very, very intellectually powerful thing to do. Because I think that one of the hardest things, it takes so much emotional and mental energy to change your opinion on something, or reject something. So I just really respected him for those two things that he turned a lot of my thinking on things upside down, he kind of broke the frame that I was looking at things. And the second is he was a man that was willing to go and look at something and then change his mind on it. Interesting.

Steve Faktor 12:34
Yeah. We don't live in a society that takes very kindly to people who question assumptions and systems and the systems that are in place that benefit, power, you know, and, and income and power. And so, so whenever someone does that, they have to prepare for a very hard life, potentially, or maybe a short one, unfortunately. Exactly.

Andrew Stotz 12:57
Well, wow, that was a lot of stuff.

Steve Faktor 12:59
We went really deep.

Andrew Stotz 13:02
Yeah, and we got a good book recommendation, The Autobiography of Malcolm X, I highly recommend. So now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one ever goes into their worst investment thinking it will be. Please tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it, and then tell us your story.

Steve Faktor 13:20
Yeah, so my worst investment ever, is really a non investment. And it's a non investment, or maybe more accurately, a delete investment in myself. And it's something that I thought would be a little bit different to discuss, because, you know, everyone always talks about, you know, invest in yourself, or, you know, self empowerment and all that stuff. But there's a very real sort of fear that we all have in really just putting it all out there, in terms of what we want to do and what we want to be, especially if that thing is very difficult. And that's kind of the situation I found myself in and maybe I can contextualize it for you. I know. Do you want me to jump in? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I'm an immigrant. I came from the Soviet Union. I was, you know, six years old when we came here. And, you know, I was always very creative. I was always very disruptive. Because, hey, listen, you know, I had a lot of ideas that didn't fit neatly in those boxes, and I went to a yeshiva, you know, a Jewish school. And I would always fight with my rabbis, because I would always question what they were teaching, you know, the rabbi would go, you know, Noah live for 950 years or something like that. And then I'd be like, I mean, if you look pretty bad after at how bad Are you gonna look at the 980 or whatever, and boom, I was out of class. So I basically had my own seat by the Hebrew principal's office. And then, you know, you go to the second half of the day where all the secular classes were, and I was the best student, you know, I still kind of disruptive a bit a bit of a handful. But, but I was I did really well. So I was living this crazy, chaotic double life where I'm punished for half the day and watch all my friends go to recess. And then for the second half of the day, I'm answering all the questions and you know, finishing the test first. So, it was very schizophrenic. But throughout all of that, the one thing that stayed constant is creativity, I would always write, so I wrote, you know, constantly ever since I was a little kid, and, and some of this stuff was so creative, and so funny, like, I still keep it, I had like a, like a plastic shopping bag. And very classy, we were immigrants, I mean, you know, my parents were gonna buy me a nice box or anything. So, I kept in this cheap, crappy plastic bag, everything I'd ever written from maybe second grade, or third grade, and I kept it in my grandmother's house in her closet. And my parents could not be more oblivious to this, they could not care less, like, it didn't even consider immigrants, it did not even register on their radar, it was like the stealth bomber, my anything I wanted to do or was interested in, we could just fly in and just drop bombs, and they would never notice. So so to them, you know, a good life or a successful life is a steady professional career. Or you're, you know, you're you grew up to be a nice boy who, you know, who does well in school, and then goes out and you know, has a family and a career and a job that everyone can be proud of. And that's kind of the direction I went in, that's the direction he pushed me in. And the whole time I had this sort of anks, you know, in no real outlet for creativity, because when I was coming up, there wasn't really internet, like there was, you know, email, and then you know, the graphical web started to appear slowly, but everything still looked crappy. And there really wasn't even a blogging or anything along those lines. So, you know, your options were limited.

Andrew Stotz 17:08
And one of the quite young question I just wanted to ask is like, what would you have done? You know, you talked about not investing in yourself or not, you know, yeah, like, what do you think you would have pursued if you had, you know, been able to do it or had the guts to do it or whatever, that was it?

Steve Faktor 17:25
Yeah, my dream was to be howard stern. That was my dream. I grew up listening to him as a little kid. And he just made me laugh. It was I you know, I listen to a very simple mind. And he had a lot of dick jokes. And, and that worked for me. And so to me, just the excitement of live radio blew me away, because it just it there was a danger to it, anything could happen, anything could be said, we don't know who's coming into the studio. Next, you know, what, what's this person can do is, is Howard gonna get fired for saying whatever his or his boss is gonna come to. So he was just, it was this really exciting environment, I just wanted to be part of it. I remember, I even bought a special Walkman that allowed you to record and I read it, I invented this thing in my head years ago, I just had nowhere to go with this idea where you could record off the radio, because, you know, some of them had reporters, but then afford the radio. Anyway, so I found a way to do this. And I would listen, you know, on my way to school on my way back, I listened to the recordings. So you know, so that was the dream. And I actually got into Boston University, which is where Howard went, but I we didn't have enough money for to send me away and to pay for school there. And they didn't give me much of a scholarship. So I ended up getting an academic scholarship at NYU. So I ended up going to NYU instead. Because, you know, the the, you know, that program in Boston was just gonna, you know, we couldn't afford it. Mm hmm.

Andrew Stotz 18:55
So, um, what would you? How would you describe what you learned from, you know, this journey of yours?

Steve Faktor 19:02
Well, that was only part of the journey. But that early stage of it really means that you, you have to fight harder, if you feel that something is innate inside of you. And you can't really allow even your parents to, you know, to guide you elsewhere. You know, you have to really fight for that, for that personal narrative that fits who you are. Hmm.

Andrew Stotz 19:32
And, you know, we go from in our childhood from having big dreams, like I want to be on howard stern or whatever. And then many people transform to conform, and the dreams are lost. Yeah. And I wonder, is there a point in time in your life that you can say that you wanted that dream, you couldn't get it but then eventually, you started really pursuing for instance, when you set up your own business as an example Can you think about a key point where you really started? Yeah, I'm investing in this. I'm following this direction with everything I got.

Steve Faktor 20:06
Yeah, you know, in the early stages of a professional career, really any professional career, especially mine, which was consulting, you have so much variety, you're such a blank slate that you're always learning, you're always busy, you're always around other people who are in the same situation. So you have this excitement that obscures your dreams in some ways, right? Because the activity and the fine, and the learning sort of stands as a proxy for the things you want. Or maybe it's an input to the things or refinement to the things you actually want. So in those early stages, I didn't even notice it, you know, but then as you progress, and things become more stodgy, more conservative, more, you know, you start moving up the ladder, because you're doing well, because you're, you know, you're smart, you're able to perform it at these jobs, and people keep moving you up, the expectations get higher, and the rules start to change. You're no longer just that creative person and doing that thing, they innovation and developing new products and services that you were great at that got you to that point. But now you're a manager, and a manager is more of a cookie cutter structure, right? So an increasing part is managing teams, his leadership, his inspiration is all the administrative stuff. So now, you know, your life starts to change, and then you feel a little bit more and more confined. And I think it all came to a head in this one moment, for me, I was sitting in a boardroom with the CEO of my company, I won't name the company just to you know, protect the the innocent, but I was sitting with the CEO, the CFO and a bunch of you know, very senior people. And everyone was going around presenting their stuff, I was there to present the innovation update. And as someone was presenting, I looked over at the CEO now mind you, this was a 7:30am meeting, I looked over, and both the CEO and the CFO are dozing off. They're, you know, they're just drifting. And I looked over and I had this revelation, not that I didn't have these thoughts before, but it crystallized it in such a beautiful way, where I was like, these are the top of the top in this organization. They don't want to be here. So if they don't want to be here, and they can't stop this thing that is rolling on tracks that they can control. Why do I want to be here? Like, am I just gonna move four seats over and essentially have the same exact job be here at the same exact time still not be able to say no to this crazy 7:30am meeting, and then start drifting off into sleep? I'm like, I don't think I want this. No, because what am i aspiring to, to move four seats over? Yeah, with more money with more whatever, but it just sort of crystallized that whole thing for me like, these are the top of the organization paid millions of dollars, and they cannot sit awake through this thing.

Andrew Stotz 23:13
Maybe I'll share a couple of things that I take away. You know, one of the things that reminds me when I first started my career Pepsi, I got hired out of university at Cal State Long Beach, and I went to work in the I had studied finance, but I went to work in the factory. So I worked in our different factories in Los Angeles. But what I really remember about that time was that there came I mean, I could work within that environment. And I did really well. But there just came a time where, and I remember I had a girlfriend at the time. And one morning I woke up, got ready and all that. And she was with staying with me. And we were living together. And as I was walking out of the house, she handed me this paper bag of a sandwich. And it was just something about the symbolism of that, like it's over. That's it your company guy. That's it. It's like go to work come home. That's it. And I was like, at that moment, I was like, Okay, that's it. And I didn't say anything. But I know my mind flipped. And eventually, I decided I'm moving to Thailand, because I'm just gonna you know, I'd already kind of come here, I thought it was pretty cool. And then I thought I don't I don't care. Even though I went to work for Pepsi in Thailand, and did the exact same job, at least it would be like bombarded with something new every day, which you know, even today, after 30 years I am. So I know that for the listeners out there. I just want to encourage you to think about, you know, the things that you're dreaming the things that are holding you back and look for those pivotal moments where you can say, Alright, that's enough. I'm ready to move to the next level. Because, you know, I think, you know, Steve couldn't move to that next level, if he didn't go through that period of learning in the beginning where he was learning everything. And, you know, same for me, I needed to see what it was like in the corporate environment to realize that that I don't want that and a lot of people have asked me, you know, you could have been, you know, it could have been impressive. Is Pepsi you could have gone to Wall Street? Yeah. Then he could have been all that. And I said, Yeah, but I had a frickin happy life. And when people asked me in Thailand, they would always ask me, you know, how often do you go home? And I say, I say, I always say this this evening, every night. Yeah, they're like, I mean, how often you go back to America, I think mom's happy with what I'm doing. And so I don't even think about it. So, you know, I just think it's a wake up call for all of us

Steve Faktor 25:28
to keep it easy. While you're seeing, you know, it rings. So true. Because, you know, happiness is very easy to define for other people, right? So so you can project like, you can look at an Instagram account, or look at all these people at this great vacation, look at the fun they're having is it you're, they're projecting an image out at you and you're projecting an idyllic life out for them, you don't know what the truth is. And just like when you give a job title to persons, like Oh, man, this person is making a fortune, or they're certain, you know, they're super successful, super happy. The successful and the happy are mutually exclusive things, you know, so you can be very successful in the eyes of the world, and not be very happy in your own eyes.

Andrew Stotz 26:11
And that's really what matters is what's you know, in your own eyes, in your own heart? Oh, you know, it brings me back to saying one of the struggles I had when I was young was that I was in a rehab in trying to get off drugs and alcohol and all that. And my counselor, Mike mattoni, who was actually one guy, one of the people I've interviewed here, Mike used to say, Don't compare your insides to other people's outsides. Right. And that summarizes what you're saying, you know, Robin Williams is a great example. I mean, who else who could look at that guy and not say, he's at the pinnacle, the guy ought to be the happiest guy in the world. Yeah, you don't know what's going on inside. And so you know, that's a great, you know, thing to remind ourselves, is don't put people up on a pedestal. Because like you say, some guys are up at the top men and women and they're just there. They're just, they're on a hamster wheel. And yeah, they don't give that appearance, they look really tighten, they speak really well. But inside, they're dying. And they'll never tell you. So don't

Steve Faktor 27:15
be dying. Not only are they dying, but they're also subjected to mechanisms that keep them in place. Because once you start taking on, you know, loans for house, once you start to, you know, have kids and you have to pay the tuition bills, once you had a certain lifestyle. Yeah, you are locked in, you're, you're, you're trapped. And so that's one of the lessons I learned. And, you know, this is one of the things that this is how I could tell that I always knew I needed to do something else. Because I always live below my means I always knew that, that this was a trap. And by seeing this, this pattern of expectations that we have for how people's lives should go. And so until I was able to honestly look in the mirror and say, This is what I want to be this is who I want to be, these are the things I want to spend my time on. And until I could do that in the time in corporate I couldn't I could not justify living up to a certain level of lavishness that I probably could afford and that others were buying but I just couldn't allow myself to have. So I kept saving to emancipate myself. So I was buying my freedom, you know, essentially. And so the whole time I didn't even realize it. And and, and then it was all subconscious, you know, my interest in investing my interest in saving money, you know, sort of denying myself some of the niceties of life that other friends were buying. I you know, it all makes sense, in retrospect, but at the time, you know, I just thought I was, you know, a cheapskate, you know, cheap, but but very, you know, planned in terms of how I live my life.

Andrew Stotz 28:59
Well, it's nothing wrong with taking pride in living deeply below your means, you know, and that's a great thing. I talked about that in one of my books, how to start building your wealth investing in the stock market, I'd say, you know, you're never gonna, you're never gonna build any large amount of wealth if you don't live below your means. And so, it also, you know, the other thing that I just, there's so many things that come across me, but maybe maybe what I'll do is ask you this question. What one action would you recommend our listeners today take to avoid suffering the same fate? How do they break free?

Steve Faktor 29:37
If I had to pick one, I would say that distinguish between what's easy and what's satisfying. So, a lot of people mistake the two. You know, I remember when I was being recruited for all of these different companies. I went with the company that wanted me most, you, I forgot that I should also be asking the same of them. Do I want to be here? You know, and and so so you know, you treat the interview process as a one way street. It's like, it's like, oh, you know, here's, here's all the information you need for me anything else? Please hire me please, please, please, you know, but but that's not really the right way to think of things you you also have to think of what are they giving to me, the not only the money, but and the tangible things but the intangible things, and and those intangible things is really you know, and then I'm cheating a little bit here, but it's sort of a Know thyself. issue. And the quicker you can get to knowing yourself and knowing your values, what motivates you, what inspires you, the things that you would do for free the things that you do for free, when no one's looking, that's who you are. And the closer you can ensure career to, to who you are as a person, the more satisfied you'll be a happiness is not guaranteed, but satisfaction and fulfillment are much likelier outcomes of that.

Andrew Stotz 31:16
Beautiful. Alright, last question. What's your number one goal for the next 12 months

Steve Faktor 31:21
to get on Joe Rogan's show,

31:23
whoa, that

Steve Faktor 31:27
that's a very, very tactical laser pointer thing. I figured I'd put it out there. And hopefully, you know, the magic happens.

Andrew Stotz 31:35
Well, you got now you have some new fans that are all gonna follow you. And by the way, what do you dress way? What is the best way for the listeners who liked what they hear? To learn more about you to listen more about you, maybe you can just tell the audience some of the best ways?

Steve Faktor 31:49
Yeah, they can check out the podcast, all the links are at the MC future.com. And if they want the newsletter, I put out periodically predictions and prescriptions, and they're, you know, in this voice, or if you're enjoying if you're enjoying this, there's more of it in writing. And that's the future.com forward slash newsletters. So I would love to get people to, you know, connect.

Andrew Stotz 32:12
Yep. And I'll put all that in the show notes. So for the listeners out there, just go to the show notes and click the links, and you'll be there. All right, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. Remember to reduce your risk in your life by going to my worst investment ever.com right now and downloading that risk reduction checklist that I've made. From all the people I've interviewed. See how you measure up. So as we conclude, Steve, I want to thank you for coming on the show. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Steve Faktor 32:56
Do I get a hat?

Andrew Stotz 32:57
Yes, you you come in. Come in to me.

Steve Faktor 32:59
I want something with tassels.

33:01
Yes.

Steve Faktor 33:03
Any words excited enough? Yeah,

Andrew Stotz 33:06
people got the point. I guess the parting words is do I get a hat? Yeah, those

Steve Faktor 33:09
are the parting words, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that's good enough.

Andrew Stotz 33:13
Yep. All right. That's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.