Ep267: John Pastor – Ask the Right Questions When Finding a Job

Andrew Stotz 00:03
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. This is Andrew Stotz v Stotz Academy where we help people facing four different challenges. investors who want to better manage their stock portfolio, aspiring professionals who want to learn how to value any company in the world, business leaders who want to make their companies financially world class, and even beginners, who just want to learn how to implement a simple lifetime investment plan. Join us for free at my worst investment ever.com slash Academy and get instant access to my short course called six ways to lose your money and six strategies to win that this course comes from what I've learned from all these podcasts interviews. Alright, and now on with the show. This is your worst podcast hosts Andrew Stotz. And I'm here with featured guest john Pastore. JOHN, are you ready to rock?

John Pastor 01:03
Oh, good, Andrew. Thanks for having me today.

Andrew Stotz 01:06
Yes, and we've been just chatting a bit before this. And I know you're ready to bring it to the audience. But let me tell the audience about you a little bit. So john Pastore has close to two decades of leadership experience in the business process outsourcing industry in the Philippines. And that's an industry that's you know, I just want to interject here. It's an industry that's massive in the Philippines. And there's some unique advantages in the Philippines. And I can tell you, I have benefited substantially from that industry. So for those listeners, who are not benefiting from outsourcing in the Philippines, well listen up, and you're going to learn from one of the pros in that area. So john has numerous years of experience in both the enhanced and outsource outsourced areas of industry, and has had the opportunity to work with top tier multinational organizations since 2001. Aside from operations, he's also well versed in different areas of business, such as continuous improvement quality, sales and business development, workforce management, facility management, training and human resource recruitment, as he's had these opportunities to oversee directly or indirectly, respected department heads in those different areas. Now john is passionate about people development, creating a positive culture and working environment, client and stakeholder relations, customer advocacy, and running day to day operations. That's quite a lot of stuff that you have done, and are doing, john, take a minute to fill in for the tidbits about your

John Pastor 02:35
life. Thank you for the very warm introduction. Andrew, had my pleasure. Yes. As you mentioned, you know, I've had a very long journey in the business process outsourcing industry here in the Philippines. Yes, it's pretty big. We're, you know, running head to head with India, in terms of you know, how big it is, for those two countries. Aside from that, well, it's close to two decades of, you know, exposure in the industry. I've managed all types of verticals, whether it's in the telecommunications field, or the banking and finance field, numerous, you know, locations, whether it's the US, the UK or Australia, you name it, I've managed that. You know, but right now, currently, I've, you know, shifted into the FinTech payments industry, currently with a company called GHL. And I am the Chief Operating Officer here in the Philippines. On a personal level, you know, I happen to be married since 2005. You are blessed to have one daughter, her name's Emma, she was born in 2009.

Andrew Stotz 03:53
Fantastic. And tell me a little bit more about the ghl. You know, and what, what's happening with that? That sounds like an interesting business.

John Pastor 04:02
It is, yeah, the payments industry is starting to get, you know, huge here in the Philippines, we do run a traditional business. If you're familiar, obviously, you're familiar with, if you go to a store, you see those credit card terminals, where you swipe your credit or debit card that that's our business. traditional sense, we supply that we maintain that we service that we sell that the good thing with, you know, ghl is we also have an online payments, you know, Avenue. So it's not just a traditional business, we do have the online payment area as well. Right. So right now because of the pandemic, it's very useful. Because you know, people don't go out, they buy stuff online, and then they use, you know, our services.

Andrew Stotz 04:55
So you guys got to be pretty busy. I'd imagine. I mean, it's a challenge for us. Some businesses, whereas other businesses like you know, hospitality or something, I kind of shut down. But I can imagine you've had a busy, a busy period,

John Pastor 05:08
especially here in the Philippines. Andrew, since March, since all this, you know, pandemic started. It's been, it's been crazy. I agree with you crazy, especially here in the Philippines, because of the numerous cases that we have. Yep. From a work perspective, it has obviously impacted A lot of us here in the Philippines. Just to give you, you know, a figure, the small and medium enterprise, you know, situation here in the Philippines close to about 4000, SMEs have shut down their business, right. From our end, obviously, if we look at our revenue forecasts versus the actual number. You know, it's been down since March. Yeah. Like we're surviving, you know, we're trying to be more creative to think out of the box and provide, you know, that unique service. We're merchants here in the Philippines.

Andrew Stotz 06:10
And I have a question for you, you know, what, something interesting that, let's say a Westerner may not know or someone that just doesn't know the Philippines, about, you know, managing people in the Philippines. Like I think about Thailand. One of the things that I didn't know, when I came to Thailand, is that ties are not as motivated by money, as Americans are. So if you say, you know, yeah, we're gonna have a sales contest, and you know, it's gonna be for this cash or this. And then you find out that the response to that it's just different from the way that let's say, an American sales team may respond to that. I'm just curious. What, for those people that don't know much about the Philippines, what would be something unique about the way to manage a Philippine workforce?

John Pastor 07:00
Wow, interesting. Very good question. Andrew. I've had colleagues from the US, from the UK, from Australia, who were first timers in the Philippines, then they were tasked to, to manage, you know, teams here or groups here. I could say that, in a nutshell, it's very similar to Thailand. People here in the Philippines, the workforce, they're not as motivated. You know, with regards to monetary rewards, it's more on their look for, you know, positive reinforcement they look for, you know, that simple Pat, in the back, hey, you did a good job. What's big here is, you know, when you have those big town hall events, and then you give, you know, do recognition to people, it doesn't have to have any monetary value, just give them certificates or medals, because that's a you're the employee of the month, right? That's huge. Hear that. So recognition. Yeah, they're hard working. And it's something that those cool managers that I worked for before from the US from the UK from Australia, they, they also learned that when they were here, so they actually had the same comments as you did the ones that sell inches.

Andrew Stotz 08:18
Now, well, thanks for sharing that. I mean, that's the beauty of a podcast is we get to learn about each other. And of course, yeah, that, that I love that part of it. Well, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one ever goes into their worst investment thinking it will be. Tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it. And then tell us your story. Sure,

John Pastor 08:39
yeah. I'll be happy to do that. Andrew, thank you very much. As I mentioned earlier, I've had a very long and interesting journey, career wise in the business process outsourcing industry in the Philippines. I graduated way, way back in 94. And, you know, after I graduated from college from university, first few years, were dedicated into sales. So I was doing a lot of sales work, selling cars, selling, you know, real estate and all that. And then early 2000s 2000, late 2000, early 2001, I discovered the business process process outsourcing industry. So, I joined, you know, a multinational, US based company, here in the Philippines. That time probably they were like the second you know, company to put up, you know, an office here in the Philippines. So very good training, very good. Everything. I learned a lot from them. And I stayed with that industry ever since. So I've worked for several different organizations, multinational organizations, and it's the I you know, I've been in the industry From 2001 to 2019. And probably there was just one year we're in, I wanted to try my HR. You know, I wanted to put on HR hats because I graduated with a human resource degree never practiced it. So when I had an opportunity to do that with a local bank here, I, you know, I did that for a year on a consultancy basis, for one year. But, you know, going back to the story. So I was in the industry, from one to 2019. And if I look back in my career, you know, there was a period of time we're in, it's very dark, in terms of, you know, what was happening, career wise, for me. I remember the date exactly December 15 2015. You know, I was with a, you know, multinational company, two weeks before Christmas, and they get this news that, hey, you know, thank you for your service. But, you know, your, your work has been, we're giving you redundancy papers. So about seven of us were given her walking papers at the time, two weeks before Christmas. And the reason for that Andrew was in, you know, in Australia, not gonna mention the company's name yet, but in Australia, the CEO stepped down. And the CFO took over the role. And the first directive to the Philippines was we need to reduce costs. You know, you have to remove some people there. And seven of us were given a walking papers two weeks before Christmas, very painful. At the time, and, you know, obviously, wherever you are in the world, whether it's in the Philippines or somewhere else, you're not gonna get anything, you know, you can look for work near Christmas, or even January, because people are still

Andrew Stotz 12:04
some of the listeners out there. Christmas is a big deal in the

John Pastor 12:08
US. It starts in June. June. Yeah. Oh, finance. Yeah, that's very true. So, it took me, Andrew, just the, you know, the real deal took me about, you know, October 2016. That's when I got my very first job offer. It's very difficult for me. At the time, my wife was still working, but obviously, we just started a family. A lot of bills were, were not, that had to be terrifying. Yes. And here in the Philippines, I guess it's a I'm not sure if it's a team thing or an Asian thing. You know, especially if you're male, you know, you're, you're the head of family. And when you don't, when you're unemployed, there's a certain stigma that's attached to it. Yep. Because we don't only take care of our immediate families, we also take care of the parents, the cousins and all that so, you know, how it is indifferently been so right, it took a toll on me mentally, physically, emotionally, and, you know, the first job offer I got,

13:23
I took it.

John Pastor 13:25
Understandably, you know, no, no, no questions asked. You know, I just took it. And the funny thing is, you know, after a few months, the same thing happened. The same thing happened this time around. You know, they this company, based in Australia, as well decided to move all their business from the Philippines, India, because from a back office work perspective, it was a lot cheaper, right? Which is, which is true at the time, right? So again, it's probably had like five months, or sorry, seven months, stay with them. Then it happened again. So. So that's strike two for me.

Andrew Stotz 14:19
And then how was that? How was it? Um, how long did it last on the second time?

John Pastor 14:24
The second time only lasted for about probably a month and a half. Hmm, I was able to

14:31
learn a new role again.

Andrew Stotz 14:33
I'm just curious, by the way about your first one. Yeah. Can you remember your darkest day? During that time, like what it was one day or one moment in time? Are you at some place, and you just were at your darkest time.

John Pastor 14:49
The darkest time was probably in the fourth month of searching for a new role starting to my wife. We were talking about, you know, financial obligations and stuff, which, you know, this Congress nation, which turned into a one argument. And, you know, a lot of things were said, which you regret afterwards. But I guess that was the darkest period for me because I felt so incompetent, right? I felt like pain. My, you know, I've done my part. I've tried applying to different roles. I've gone through numerous interviews, it's exhausting, and went through like, final interview stages. And then just, you know, some of them said, you know, sorry, but we got someone else, but some of those other companies didn't say anything at all, nothing zero Zilch. So it's very frustrating time. And, you know, obviously, may may may, may temper was very short at the time as well, because I'm so frustrated. I would say that was the worst, you know,

16:06
day, huh?

John Pastor 16:07
Yeah. Until you know, you know, wanted to change that when they woke up in the morning. You have to be you have to remain positive, you have to do your best and all that. So. Okay, so going,

Andrew Stotz 16:22
yep. Sorry, go ahead. I'm just thinking about how did it end? I mean, when can you say that you finally were able to get that job, and all of a sudden feel like, okay, now I'm back on my feet,

John Pastor 16:35
I guess on. So after eight months of searching, when I got the job offer, I feel so relieved. I felt so you know, when I got the job offer, you know, looked at my email and immediately ran to my wife, hey, finally, you know, I got something, I got a job offer a similar role, what I had before, similar company, you know, headquarters for this from the same country. So it's very excited. You know, I wanted to make sure that, you know, my wife was the first to know. So you told him the good news. And she was very happy for me. And

Andrew Stotz 17:15
exciting.

John Pastor 17:16
Yeah. Exciting. And at that time, yes. Yeah.

Andrew Stotz 17:19
So what lessons did you learn from this experience?

17:23
of

John Pastor 17:26
Take your time? I know, this, from what I described, I know, like eight months was a long way. But in retrospect, when I look back, even though you know, the I didn't have a job at that time, and I was an unemployed and you know, I wasn't earning any money. I wasn't contributing to the family. My wife was still working at a time. And I didn't, you know, I didn't ask a lot of questions. to open up, you know, conversations about the role about you plants in the Philippines. Do you plan to stay long in the Philippines? I never imagine those questions, right. So I just wanted to grab the first opportunity that was there, because the first thought that came to my mind was any to have a job, yep. to support my family and support my wife, you know. So that's the biggest lesson for me

Andrew Stotz 18:27
Got it. Maybe I'll share one story from my life about this. And that was when the 1997 Asian financial crisis happened. And I lost my job. And we had a coffee factory, we still have to this day, but we were just starting it. And so it was so painful. My best friend and I had to live in the factory, because we just couldn't run out of money. And you know, it was such a tough time. And, and then, and then, to make matters worse, my sister passed away from cancer at that time, so I was, you know, home with her in the US, and then came back to Thailand, and I was really depressed. I thought there's just no way I'm going to get a job. This crisis could go on for a long time. And I just didn't see a way out. And I can remember what you know, waking up in that factory. Oh, man, it just was depressing. Right? And, you know, nothing's happening because our customers were, you know, practically gone. And, and there was a few things that got me out of it. You know, one of the things was my best friend who runs the coffee business, he said, Look, we got to move to like an apartment nearby. We can't stay in the factory forever because it's just going to destroy our mentality. So one lesson that I learned is you have to change the circumstances a bit to get yourself to break the cycle of the way you're feeling. Right so That's one lesson I took away from that. And then the other one is that, and I think you can hear it, you know, when you talk about this is that, for me, I can only speak for me, and I can only speak for men, or a man like me is that so much of my self worth came from my job. So when I lost that, and when I couldn't get one, I felt terrible about myself. And, and that's something that, you know, I often tell my friends, my female friends that, you know, we, I tell them this story, and I say, look, if you really want to understand most men, they derive a huge amount of their self worth from their work. definitely agree with you. And if you don't understand that, and you expect them to not do that, you know, you may be expecting something that's really hard for them to do. And so I learned a lesson and that is, I stopped the idea of all I've maybe I want to work for five years, and then take some time off, nope, not for me, I'm happy to I'm happy to be working all the time. And even when the code situation came, I decided that I knew from this experience that I had to keep myself, you know, busy. And, you know, I obviously we all have businesses and other things that we're trying to keep going. But the main thing I did is I focused in my online courses, I got a lot of interns that have helped me a lot, a tremendous amount, and I just focused in on, you know, how am I going to, you know, make sure that we're building our business through this crisis. So that's my big takeaway is that a man's confidence comes maybe disproportionately from his work. And that, anything you'd add to that,

John Pastor 21:42
I definitely agree. self worth goes down the drain, if you're not employed, or, you know, if you if you, if you lose your job that you been passionate about your whole life, and then you suddenly lose it, you know, it, you know, sets you back a lot, and I definitely agree with it. I guess one thing I forgot to add, aside from the argument, they had been my wife, I had to stop paying for my parents rent, this is very painful as well. And I had to ask help from my brother, who's in the US to, you know, give more in terms of financial support, it was very embarrassing as well, because I'm the eldest in the family. And, you know, the expectation was, obviously, for me to support my parents are pretty old. I'm very painful experience for me at the time.

Andrew Stotz 22:41
So, um, you know, I just want to highlight to the listeners out there, you know, john is a successful man, and he's lived a successful life. And what he's going through is the, the willingness to kind of revisit the struggles that you've been through, and the benefit of this podcast for all the listeners out there is to take, take energy and power from john, and from his experience, that you will make it through this, you will make it through the tough time that you're facing. So let me ask you, based upon what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn, what action would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate or to deal with it? As it comes?

John Pastor 23:23
I would tell all the listeners, Andrew, if you're looking for, for work, take your time, and ask questions, you know, during the interview process, you know, ask as many questions as possible, you know, break down the barrier, make sure that you are you know, you're you're getting into something that you truly love. And the role that you're getting into is something that, you know, based on your core competencies would really align, so to speak with the job role. Because, you know, I think it's very important, because if you're not happy with your role, then even if you go to work every day, you know, it's just like dragging yourself for now. Yeah, Who wouldn't? Yeah, that's true. If you're unemployed, and you're desperately wanting to work, don't just grab the first thing that's out there. I mean, you know, look for something that you truly want to be a part of, whether it's a company or a role, I think, if for you know if you can have those two combined, if that's great.

Andrew Stotz 24:39
Yeah. And I would add one other thing, which is the idea that don't you know, a lot of times we blame ourselves? Yes. And it's, it's necessary and it's sometimes very right. But there are times in life, where circumstances are a major factor and when you're facing that situation, I think the one thing I would say is, don't be too hard on yourself. You know, and this idea of takes time, you know, it just, this too shall pass is what we learned from the Bible. So yeah,

John Pastor 25:13
you have to remain positive. Because, you know, when those negative, you know, ideas coming to mind, then it's just gonna

Andrew Stotz 25:22
beat you up. Yep. I mentioned a story that I had in my past where I was facing that depressing time. And I volunteered at kind of an orphanage or a place for abused or abandoned children. And, you know, what I, what happened was, I realized how grateful I needed to be for what I had. And so I remember that a very good friend, many years ago, an older guy said to me, You can't think your way into better action, you have to act your way into better thinking. And it made me think that, you know, okay, what he's telling me is get out there and do something good for someone else, take the action, and that will reshape your thinking. But if you're sitting at home, all alone, trying to reshape your thinking, and thinking that that's going to lead to better action, it's just a tougher, it's a tougher way to do it. So

26:20
a great, yeah.

Andrew Stotz 26:21
All right. Last question, what's your number one goal for the next 12 months? Ah,

John Pastor 26:27
on a professional level, probably, you know, stay in the payments industry, I know, it's going to be huge here in the Philippines. You know, try to grow our company, try to grow the, you know, the online payments, you know, platform as well, aside from the traditional business that we have, and on a personal level, you know, just, you know, grow with, you know, make sure that the family is well taken care of. Be healthy, you know, hopefully this COVID situation is soon finished. You know, hopefully we can go back to normal. come next year. So, you know, I have a 10 year old daughter's 1311. She has been, you know, stuck in the house for the longest time, she misses her friends, she wants to go out. She misses traveling, I miss traveling. Yeah. So that's one thing that we haven't done for the past few months. So hopefully, things ease up in the coming 2021. And we can

Andrew Stotz 27:30
go visit some places. Absolutely. And I look forward to seeing you in the Philippines. Haha. Well, listeners, there you have it another story of loss to keep you winning. Remember to go to my worst investment ever.com slash Academy to get access to the short course six ways to lose your money and six strategies to win. As we conclude, john, I want to thank you for coming on the show. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

John Pastor 28:09
Oh, thank you very much, Andrew, for having me today. And thank you, to your listeners for you know, sparing some time to listen to me today. parting words, yeah, just be positive. You know, keep in a positive frame of mind. Things will get better.

Andrew Stotz 28:26
Thank you very much. Fantastic. And I think I just want to remind the listeners that it is John's vulnerability and willingness to look at his past struggles, that makes him a better manager. And I challenge all of us out there to follow his example, and explore our struggles and be willing to talk about them and feel them. And that makes us a more compassionate person in life and in business. And that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and most importantly, protect our wealth fellow risk takers. This is Andrew Stotz, your worst podcast host for the day, saying I'll see you on the upside.