Ep617: John Talty – It’s OK to Move On to the Next Thing

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. And that mission has led me to create the become a better investor community where you get access to the tools you need to create, grow and protect your wealth go to my worst investment ever.com right now to clean your spot. Fellow risk takers this is your worst podcast hosts Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest, John Paul T. John, are you ready to join the mission? Ready? Let's do it. I'm going to introduce you to the audience. Ladies and gentlemen. John Tati is the senior sports editor and SEC insider at Alabama Media Group. He is the Wall Street Journal Best Selling Author of the leadership secrets of Nick Saban. How Alabama's coach became the greatest ever. His work has been featured on ESPN Sports Illustrated and CBS Sports among other national outlets. John, take a minute and tell us about the unique value that you bring to this wonderful world.

John Talty 01:18
I think that I do have some unique value, I feel like based on my background, so growing up, my dad worked on Wall Street. And so I kind of grew up in that world of sports. And so for a lot of my career kind of molded some of those things between sports, business leadership, I think a lot of it goes together, whether it's an investment on the field, or you know, in a boardroom, whatever it might be, I think there's a lot of crossover appeal between all those different things, which is where I've focused a lot of my career on.

Andrew Stotz 01:47
So before we talk, I want to hear about the book. But before we talk about that, talk about okay, how is that Wall Street connection, the SEC insider all that stuff? Like, tell us more about what you're doing there? And, you know, how does that fit together? And then let's talk a little bit about the book. Well, I

John Talty 02:05
think that if you look at you know, college sports right now, money dominates everything, you know, if you look at, we've seen universities leave conferences that they've been in for hundreds of years, to join other ones. And what's the reason it's money. You know, we saw it recently with UCLA and USC out in California, leaving the PAC 12 for the big 10. And the big 10 is primarily centered in the middle of the country. It's not, you know, it's not a geographic fit for those schools, but they're doing it for money. So we've seen a lot of that was in college sports, right now, there's an opportunity for young athletes to be able to make money through this thing called nickname, image and likeness. And we're seeing businesses really rushed into that world trying to find ways to make money. And so sports is interesting, because you know, the games are played on fields, on in arenas, on basketball courts, whatever it might be. But so much of what happens on those courts and on those fields is determined by money. It determines who you can hire the players you get, the field that you're playing on, that is determined by money. So I think there's so many ways that finance and business influences sports, particularly college athletics. And so that's kind of where I gravitated toward I try to focus on those big picture topics and explain the how and the why of these important topics after going through college sports.

Andrew Stotz 03:26
And I wonder, you know, on one hand, people may say, oh, we should go back to the old days where sports was just sports. But on the other hand, you could say that, well, these athletes are sacrificing themselves in every way, particularly physically. And, you know, for them to earn money and see a pathway to earn real money out of it is absolutely there. Right. I'm just curious, like, how do you look at that? And how do people see that in America these days?

John Talty 03:58
Yeah, Andrew, I think part of it is that the money just got to be too big. You know, we're seeing these head coaches like Nick Saban, the one that I wrote a book about, I mean, you make $10.7 billion a year, right. And so here, you have this coach, and he deserves every single sense of that. I mean, he has generated hundreds of millions of dollars for the university, and they've expanded in many ways, really, because of his success. But you have this coach making eight figures, and you have the players making $0. And so I think as that as that money exploded, I think it became more and more of an optics issue where people felt like this is really unfair, that these top players aren't making anything. And you know, at Alabama, a lot of them go on to play in the NFL, and that's in some ways where they make their money, but they're guys who they might blow their knee or they have to tear their Achilles, whatever it might be, and they never get that opportunity. But in college, that could have been a lot of money. And so that's what we're seeing. That's at least the idea behind it. Alabama has this player called Bryce young, he won the Heisman Trophy last year, and now he's making millions of dollars this year in college and I think that's kind of the Stand behind it is to allow someone in a free kind of open market. If he can make millions, he should be allowed to make millions. And under the previous guidelines, that wasn't possible. So that's been kind of a progression to get to this point. But I think when it went from, I mean, guys have old and Bear Bryant guys didn't make a lot of money. I mean, relatively speaking, they made good money, but they weren't making millions. And I think once the money got so big, it felt like even more of a disparity between those two groups.

Andrew Stotz 05:27
And one question I have is, you know, if I look at my professor, I had a finance professor at Long Beach State when I went there. And he hired me to do like an internship with him. And you know, he paid me practically nothing. And he was making very good money for sure. And I wasn't able to actually capitalize on my college experience until, you know, years later. And I'm just curious, why is it that a sports person, let's say in college should be able to really capitalize on that, at that moment in college?

John Talty 05:58
Well, Andry engine no offense to you, I'm sure you brought lots of values that professor but I mean, we can see how much money that these guys are generating, because we can see them. I mean, I doubt 100,000 People were coming to our stadium to watch you talk, you know, that. Maybe they will now but like, at that point, they weren't. And so whereas we can see at Alabama, you know, there's 100,000 People coming to see the football team, right. And you could argue, I mean, we'd get into the weeds on the math of what guys are worth and all that. But big picture wise, we know there's a massive market for it. These universities are making, you know, the SEC upwards of $50 million from television revenue annually, right expense. So we know there's a massive audience of these people wanting to watch the top schools. And then you know, now we have, you know, we have jerseys, we have t shirts, we have things where, you know, you put a top players name on the back of a jersey, you'll see hundreds of them, 1000s of them within a stadium. And for a long time, those guys were like, wait a second, like they're buying my jersey, but I'm not making any money off of that. So there are some people where I feel like there's more of a direct connection to them actually bringing in money, and then deserving some kind of it. But yeah, man, it's an interesting debate, you knocked

Andrew Stotz 07:09
out that argument pretty strongly, because I bought pretty much no value to the university when I was there. And all that happens when you leave is they asked you to donate money. And you know, okay, how much value do I really bring to the university, but these guys are adding value, right, then they're bringing revenue to that university. And in theory, that revenue can be reinvested in other students and other things. So I think that's a great argument. Maybe you can just explain a little bit about how you even came up with the idea of writing your book, and then maybe go through kind of a brief explanation of what it's about, so that the listeners, if they're interested, will be able to go to it and say, you know, here's what I'm gonna get from this book.

John Talty 07:51
Yeah, so it's interesting. I've covered you know, college sports for a long time now, and specifically around Alabama, there's just a different feel. And if you look at the success they've had over the last 15 years, I mean, it's unprecedented. And that was part of it. That's it. That was interesting. You always kind of I'm always I think we're drawn as fans to greatness, right? And whether that's on sports, whether that's in business, tech, whatever, you're kind of drawn to, what is their secret sauce here, there's something that they're doing that's special. And when I got deeper and deeper into understanding algorithm football, and Nick Saban, what I kept getting back from players and coaches and other people was that this is run like a business. I kept hearing that over and over again. And to me, part of it was testing, is there actually some business characteristic? Is there a real business fundamentals happening? Or is it just the fact that it's run a little more organized a little more professional than maybe the average college football program? And that's why people think it's a business. And so that was kind of where I started the idea from what's the kind of investigate? Are there things that are happening within this program organization that are translatable outside of football? And I think that there are a lot, and that's certainly the conclusion, I did write a book about it. So of course, I believe that but I think there's a lot of what Nick Saban does, in terms of how he builds his organization, how he recruits people, how he handles success, all these different things that I think you could apply in your everyday life. Regardless what you do, whether you run a company, whether you run a supermarket, whether you're just trying to get the best out of your kids, whatever it might be. I think there's a lot of life lessons within his approach that I've even deployed in my own life. There are different things, especially around adversity. I think that's something that sports I think is really good at is because they deal with a lot more adversity than maybe they do in other areas of life. You know, there's a win and a loss every game, right? And so they have to handle loss a lot more than maybe the average person does. And there's a lot of lessons within that.

Andrew Stotz 09:46
But when you think about it, you know, with business, you kind of added up at the end of the month, or maybe at the end of the quarter, or at the end of the year and things can slide and you don't even really see it so clearly. But with sports, it's like boom. It is on the line every single time that you play basically that you are seeing that. Well, how would you summarize that maybe just give us a one or two takeaways, that someone who had read this book would say, okay, that's, that's valuable. I want to learn more about it.

John Talty 10:17
Yeah, I mean, his famous product is called the process. And it's been, they've tried to replicate it throughout college sports. It's a big kind of part core tenant of what his approach is, and, and from like a big picture standpoint, it would be, rather than focusing on an end goal, it's breaking it into much smaller, more digestible goals on an everyday basis that you have to do trying to build towards something greater. And so for instance, at Alabama, obviously, the goal is to win a national championship. That's the top thing you can do in college football. But within the Alabama football building, there's no big poster that says our number one goal is win a national championship, they're not bringing that up in meetings, it instead is about having the attitude and mindset to work every day as if you were a national champion. And so it's focusing on the smaller moments. And I think it helps make it more digestible, especially for young people, I think it's easier to kind of build momentum doing that you can think you know, if I can just control what I need to do for this one hour, rather than thinking about, Oh, man, I gotta do all these things. Today, I've got to go here, I gotta go there, I got to pick up the laundry or whatever, I just focus on that one hour, do what you need to do that one hour, and then you move on to the next thing. And so that's a lot of how the organization is built. It's very clear, concise communication. Everybody knows what their duties are every single day. And they're held accountable to it. So there's no, well, I don't know what my boss really wanted me to do today. So I just kind of did my own thing, you know exactly what you have to do every single day. And it's built off of that. So there's a lot of that. And the other thing that I'll just say quickly, is that I think one of the hardest things to do is to achieve success, right. But I would argue it's maybe even harder to maintain or to build off of that success. Once you get a taste of it, you make a little money, you feel good. It's hard to keep it going. And especially when there's more direct competition, once Andrew becomes has the best podcast, there's somebody else out there in the world that says I'm going to knock them off. And they're going to be working as hard as possible to knock you off. And so the fact that they have been able to achieve these incredible results year after year is incredibly challenging, I think there's a lot of lessons in terms of how he maintains a certain level of intensity within his organization to combat against complacency.

Andrew Stotz 12:34
It's fascinating. And, you know, I mean, I'm all interested in, you know, business and all that I don't know much about sports. But definitely when I look at coaches, and you know, when I look at the challenges that they face, they're taking raw material out of high school, you know, look what, what a mess I was when I came out of high school. And you know, they take this raw material and start converting it into something really, really impressive and admirable, and they transform lives, you know, ultimately, the hope is, is that as a young person, you go through a program like that, and it really does transform your life, and you become a better person as a result. And that's, that's pretty awesome. So Well, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be. Tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it, then tell us your story.

John Talty 13:28
Sure, so I'll take you back a decade plus was in New York working. And, you know, I feel like I was actually working at a business publication and was doing well. And it was having fun in New York City's in my early 20s, and all that and had an opportunity to take a job elsewhere. And it was you know, I had a boss in New York who was from Mississippi, and we were talking about college football and he would say, you know, man, if you you claim to like college football as much as you, you say you do, like, you gotta you gotta you got to move to the south, you got to do it. And you know, I don't know. And eventually he moved to Mississippi and just was in my ear and convinced me like, I need you to move to Mississippi. And so, from that point, I broke up the girl that I was dating at the time I packed up the meager possessions I had in a my little Honda Civic, and I drove from New York City to Jackson, Mississippi sight unseen. I just did it that I didn't know anything about Jackson, Mississippi. I just got in my car and drove and you know, I stopped over I think in Tennessee one day and continued on the journey and I'll never forget driving into Jackson, Mississippi, for my first time. And it there was just this. There was just these dark kind of clouds and storms just kind of going around Jackson as I pulled in, and I was like I feel like I might have made a mistake. This feels like this is not it's not a good start. I had found some apartment on the internet wasn't ready yet. I had to stay at this extended stay for about a month. And I feel like he just got progressively worse and worse, right? It felt like, you know, I have all these friends are still in New York and they're having a great time I'm here in Jackson, Mississippi don't know a soul living in a terrible extended stay. That was, you know, surrounded by I wouldn't say the highest of society of people. You know, there's some people doing some things in the parking lot that you probably are not allowed to do. And you're just kind of if there's just a question, just like, Did I make a huge mistake was this was this a terrible idea? And I'll never forget, got two months into it. My boss called me into his office and when he convinced me to move to Mississippi, and so that, you know, how's it going, man? Do you like it down here, you had this whole southern thing going on. And I just said, if the next month is like this one I'm out of here. Like I'm not staying like this is easily the worst place and worst job ever had I hate it here like I need to, I need to get out of here. And just like just just give it a little time, blah, blah. Soon as I walked out the there was a co worker that he just begged, like, please just take John out for a drink like this guy's skies, flounder in here. And you know, and so from a, from a big picture standpoint, I'm still in the south, right. So I guess you know, something's worked out. But it was something that challenged me more than anything, I would say just in terms of leaving a great situation for what was not a great one. Living moving from New York City to Jackson, Mississippi, I still not a Jackson fan, I don't I have not been back in Jackson, Mississippi, since the day I left. It's just kind of like still kind of bad memories for me. But it was one of those big swings that when you're in your early 20s, you feel a little bit better about doing and kind of what I defended my risky investment, I guess was that if I'm ever going to do it, I should do it now. And that is kind of what led me to just drive sight unseen and move down there. And then when I got there, I was like, my might have been a good idea to do a little bit more research.

Andrew Stotz 17:19
So how would you summarize the lessons that you learned from this?

John Talty 17:23
Well, I think one of the big things that I learned that I use today is that because I'll tell people, you know, I love being pushed out of my comfort zone. And what I realized is that I actually hate it. I like when I've gone across the other side, right? It's great when you put yourself out of your comfort zone, you survive it, you achieved these different life lessons, or you achieve goals or whatever it might be, then you can look back, like, I'm so glad that I did that. And I've done that other times in my life. But when you're actually in the thick of it, it's really, really hard. And I try to remind myself of that now when I write a book or whatever it might be, and I'm really in the middle of it. I'm like, I'm floundering right now that like it's okay, it's like, it'll be alright, the lessons will come once you finish it. But in the moment, it's okay to struggle during it. So that's kind of been a big one. For me, but also it's and I write about this in the Saban book that I think sometimes we have this belief that you're just plants, just what's it like just bloom where you're planted, right? And staying in Jackson, Mississippi was not going to be the right environment for me to stay in to cultivate the best of what? Right. And so I think I also learned that, you know, when you make a big investment, whatever it might be a move is a pretty big one. If it doesn't work out and I succeeded, well, professionally there but personal life wise, it was not the right fit for me that it's okay to cut ties, it's okay to take a loss in some regard and move on. Rather than trying to be a martyr and prove to everybody I can make this work. Like, you know, Nick Saban did it other people done it? Like sometimes you got to move around a little bit to find the right spot for you? And not just simply Well, I gotta make the best of the situation. You don't always have to do that.

Andrew Stotz 19:10
Yeah, maybe I'll share a couple of things I take away. I mean, the first thing when you were talking about that, I was thinking about how does a football player feel when he goes to practice every day? He wants to result but man, it's suffering when you're down there, you know, and I think for all of us, the transformation doesn't happen until the hard work is put in and the pain and suffering and struggle happen. And that's part of the reason why you know, it's painful. You remind me of a story I've never told on the podcast is what my first girlfriend I, I was living in Ohio and my godfather had a camp called Tom Sawyer day camp in Los Angeles. And it was the largest day camp in Los Angeles at the time. And he said, I said I want to go to California and my dad said you better call your godfather because he lives out there. And I called him and I basically moved the IDC to come live with me and work at my camp, I was a camp counselor. I was like 18 or 19 going, I was like in my first year at university, and studying in Ohio. And then I fell in love with Nina from Pasadena, my first girlfriend, like 20. She was amazing, beautiful, you know, the relationship really wasn't that great. But she was amazing and beautiful. And she had that one thing that I really appreciated more than anything else. She liked me. Right, that was enough for me. So I basically we had a great time, went back to Ohio, studied, and then we agreed that I was going to go to California and live after the school year. So I drove out to California took me three days, I got there, and she said, Let's meet at the park. And I said, Oh, okay, let's do that. So we met at the park in the morning. And she handed me her necklace that I had given her and her ring that I given her and she said, I want to break up. And I basically did what any self respecting young man would do, I begged her to stay together. And basically, she was studying in Berkeley, and I was just a lost soul, you know, trying to not have to pay back student loan debt. So we moved to Oakland, and basically I was in Oakland, we tried to keep it together, eventually, we broke up. And it was just such a painful time, I've worked a bunch of different jobs. And I was living in a really rough neighborhood on High Street in Oakland. And I was going to Laney College. And we mentioned I mentioned to you before, when we turn on the recorder that that really touched my heart when I watched last last chance you. And then when when I left, my friend came to pick me up after six months in Oakland to take me down to LA to live with another father, a father of another friend of mine from Ohio. And basically, as we pulled out of Oakland, and drove out, and we had like a little bit of a U haul behind us with a bunch of stuff in it. I just started sobbing. And I just realized, you know, I really went there was a huge amount of pain in that time. And I wouldn't really allow myself to feel it because I just I didn't know, I felt like I would fall apart if I let myself go into that. And so I worked to try to survive, and then I left. But that just kind of really reminded me of that. And you know, for everybody out there, you know, you're all going to make some decisions maybe right or wrong. But when you get in the heat of it, it is going to be hard, stick to it, make some decisions about you know what you're going to do next. And it's not a problem to move on to the next thing. And that's kind of my biggest takeaway. Anything you would add to that?

John Talty 22:28
No, absolutely. I mean, I hate that you had to go through that. But I mean, it's a big, it's something that a lot of people have had to go through. And you know, there's a great book written I think was in the 80s. I'm gonna butcher the title, but the main message is like tough times don't last tough people do, right. And I think that's something that I fall back on a lot is that when you're in the thick of it, it's going to feel bad. And it's going to feel sometimes, you know, unachievable, really, but I think if you can just kind of keep powering through. And then you got to have that moment where you leave and it hits you. And that's happened to me. And times do we have in Jackson, Mississippi hit me a little bit too. But you get through it, and you look back and you weren't. And I think that's one of the biggest things too. Anytime you make a mistake, or you have a bad investment learning from it, I think it's the most important thing.

Andrew Stotz 23:09
So based upon what you've learned now, after you've been through this, and what you continue to learn, let's think about that young man or woman out there that is kind of a little bit on the spur of the moment making a decision to go and really uproot themselves pretty substantially. What one action would you recommend that they take to avoid suffering the same fate?

John Talty 23:29
Maybe visit first? That would be one. I think about? I think ultimately one of the big things is I think it's thinking about what's the plan, right? And what I think I'm. I am a big proponent of living in the moment. But I also think understanding what's the endgame here, right. And so, you know, again, growing up in New Jersey, working in New York, you know, millions of people flocked to New York, right? They don't have a plan. They're just like, I just want to live in New York, right? Well, then you get to New York or LA one of those. It's incredibly expensive. Lots of people are moving there. And it can get chaotic, and it feels rough, fast. And so if there's not a plan, there's not an end game, or I'm going to work as a waiter for six months, then I'm going to get a job here, whatever it might be, I think you if you have a little bit of more of an understanding of what you're walking into, and not purely from kind of rose colored glasses of it's going to be incredible, and everything about my life is going to be amazing. I think it'd be a little easier to navigate that challenge. I would certainly not discourage people from taking big swings. I think that's one of the great aspects of life. But I think if going in eyes open and having a little bit more knowledge, I think can limit some of the potential issues down the line where at least you know, you might be walking into that visit first. That's a big one to visit first that you know, if you want to move to New York, visit New York first. See if you like it, it's not for everybody. Same of La not for everybody.

Andrew Stotz 24:50
Yeah. My next question I use the Ask what's the resource but I just want to highlight to the listeners out there that get the book. I'll have the links in the show notes you know, and congratulations on writing. And I know it's not easy to write a book and you've got 4.7 Out of five ratings on Amazon, which is fantastic. So you know, well done. Is there any other resource? Or should that be the one that people should go to?

John Talty 25:15
Yeah. So I mean, of course, some of the other people buy the book, I'm not going to pretend like I don't care. I'll show you a quick here. Yo, Nick Saban, Nick Saban book. But the other one, you know, I think, I think there's a lot of value for a lot of people no matter where they are from that one. The other one that I'll recommend, I think fits the conversation that we're having here. It's called the obstacles the way it's by Ryan Holliday is an incredible author. Another one that I recommend you want to get into, you know, creating things. Perennial seller is also a great book that I referenced quite a bit when I was writing this book and thinking about marketing and talking. And that's really how I started reading some of Brian's work. But the obstacle the way is a great book, at its most core adversity, powers the growth, right. And that's what it really is all about. And I think when you go through tough times, realizing that it's a huge opportunity to grow, I think is a great way of shifting your mindset. And I think that's a book that has meant a lot to me in the past.

Andrew Stotz 26:10
Right? Actually, I'd never heard of perennial sellers. So that's it. That's an interesting one. Interesting, fantastic. You're the first to recommend that. So I'm going to be looking into that one also, as well as yours, of course. Well, last question, what is your number one goal for the next 12 months?

John Talty 26:27
write another book. That's one of them. And I think with that, my second one I'll give you this is maybe a little bit more cheesy. But I think, trying to find the joy, a one piece of joy in every single day. That's really, I would say from a non materialistic sample, like, that's my number one goal, because I think it's so easy to get caught up in the world and busy and writing books and all that you get caught up in the different stuff, but trying to give myself at least one moment every day where I appreciate something about my life or what I'm doing. And kind of soaking that in, I'm trying to try to be better about being thankful about things.

Andrew Stotz 27:05
Great idea. I'm going to share one right now. And that is and it's pretty easy for me, I can say this one every single day. Since I brought my mother six years ago from North Carolina to Bangkok to live with me, I get to hug my mom every single day. And at 84. And you know, 57 myself, what a great thing. What's one thing that you, you know, are grateful for today? Like what's, what's that one thing?

John Talty 27:32
I think, you know, so I have a nine year old son, I think that's I think that's a big one. He was playing his recorder for me the other day. And I wouldn't say it was the greatest performance ever heard. But just you know, I think that was a lot of fun. And I think the thing that's important what I've thought about this, because I think you look at the way a child looks at the world and the pure joy and love they have I think as we get older, we're getting more cynical and we lose a lot of that. Thinking in my world in journalism, there's a lot of cynicism and understandably so. But trying to just appreciate those little moments of joy a little more is what I think I'm trying to do.

Andrew Stotz 28:04
Fantastic. Well listeners there you haven't another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't yet become a member, join become a better investor community just go to my worst investment ever.club.com to claim your spot. As we conclude, John, I want to thank you again for joining our mission and on behalf of a Stotz Academy I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

John Talty 28:32
Well, I just appreciate you having me on so much. Joy enjoyed our conversation. I hope that people got something out of this and I hope you will get something out of the book.

Andrew Stotz 28:40
Amen. Well, that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our wealth fellow risk takers. Let's celebrate that. Today. We added one more person to our mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. I'll see you on the upside.