Ep529: Edward Zia – Question, Push Back, and Get Help to Avoid Homelessness

Andrew Stotz 00:02
Hello fellow risk takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning. In our community. We know that to win in investing, you must take risk, but to win big, you've got to reduce it. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm on a mission to help 1 million people reduce risk in their lives to reduce risk in your life. Go to my worst investment ever.com today and take the risk reduction assessment I created from the lessons I've learned from more than 500 guests, fellow risk takers, this is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz, from a Stotz Academy, and I'm here with featured guest, Edward Xia, Edward, are you ready to join the mission?

Edward Zia 00:44
I am, and I was gonna say there is no one listening who's a bigger loser than me.

Andrew Stotz 00:49
Okay, well, we got to learn more about that. And of course, we know that truthfully, if losing brings you to winning, then you are the evidence of that. Edward Xia is a marketing, mentor, certified practicing marketer. That's a CPM and international master coach, and has mentored 1000s of winners globally, to help them get more clients win top positions, and become leading personal brands. And I think we're all interested in that, Edward. So can you just take a minute and tell us about the value that you bring to the world through your products and services?

Edward Zia 01:27
Very simply, I help people do two things, I help them become basically big LinkedIn influencers. So opportunities come to them. Plus, I run a business network, so I get people connected. So I'm all about coaching, empowerment, in terms of being influencers stuff, and connecting people together.

Andrew Stotz 01:45
And why is LinkedIn such a focus? I mean, you know, come on Facebook, there's Instagram, tell me?

Edward Zia 01:52
Well, it's not just me that thinks his Facebook and Instagram are losing users by the day. And I think now, I'm connected to some wonderful people on Facebook and Instagram, and I love those people. But I think Facebook and Instagram are very yesterday platforms and where it's at platforms like LinkedIn, LinkedIn is owned by Microsoft. And I love Microsoft. And I think they're doing a great job of LinkedIn. And at the other day, people a value is spending less and less time on LinkedIn, that correction on Facebook and instant effect. Where do we make do we meet on Facebook or Instagram? Andrew?

Andrew Stotz 02:23
No. LinkedIn?

Edward Zia 02:25
Yeah, well, there you go. You're a man of value. Clearly, men have lots of value. And we didn't meet over Facebook or instant we met on LinkedIn.

Andrew Stotz 02:32
Perfect. Yeah. In fact, you mentioned that, you know, I deleted my Facebook off of my mobile phone. Oh, about a month or so ago?

Edward Zia 02:42
I told you, you're a man of value. You just proved it. Yeah, it's it's

Andrew Stotz 02:45
just too much distraction. And I'll tell you, the reason why I like LinkedIn is because it gives me a chance when someone communicates to me, it gives me a chance to to understand a little bit more about them. And whereas if somebody sends me an email, I just really don't know who they are. They may be someone who amazing, but I just don't get that from an email. But with LinkedIn, I love to go all the way down, Edward, I don't know about you, but I love to go all the way down to the bottom and like, find out what's something interesting about this person. They're played table tennis, or they speak five languages, or they have amazing recommendations. And I think that's sometimes the real fun stuff of it. So that's where I see the value in. Well, set

Edward Zia 03:23
engine. So there you go. So what you said is the reason why I'm on LinkedIn and not the other platforms,

Andrew Stotz 03:28
that's great. And maybe just before we move into the big question, we've got a lot of listeners out there, they're like, oh, Edward, I'm on LinkedIn, you know, I'm not really getting that much from it. You know, I've done some work, I've, you know, put in my descriptions of myself and I put in my education, what would be like one or two things that you would suggest based upon, you know, all that you've learned over the years.

Edward Zia 03:50
Two things is post something awesome, at least once a day and connect with absolute winners am now stacho, that'll kick you off, there's a lot more required. But if you do that, that'll solve half the problem.

Andrew Stotz 04:05
And let's just nail down something awesome. I mean, I love that. Is that something personal? Or is that something? Is that a story? Or is that a tidbit? Or how do you think about what they should do this? I like that. And I want to start today. What's?

Edward Zia 04:23
Well, I test everything on myself first. So I'll never ever jump on a podcast with such a handsome man like yourself and start shooting my golf off about stuff that I don't know. So I'm very much into stick to your own lane. If you don't know something, shut the hell up. Right. And the third point is as well is I this is what I do every day. So I spend probably too much time on LinkedIn. So basically, I spend time on LinkedIn so you don't have to, and that's just it like it's just at the end day. Just be logical. It's just obvious like if you're not posting people aren't seeing you so you got to post at the other day, you got to connect with people one on one period Simple if, for example, we connected over five workers in Facebook right now Facebook on the brain, what's wrong with me? Right, they're going to remove it from my phone to the guy. Now, I'll tell you why get Facebook and install on the brain. I'm actually considering removing the app from my phone too. So when you said that you kind of triggered me into, you know, some more intelligence that you will come back to that beyond the point that I'm making, right, the point that I'm making is that you're ultimately going to connect with good people. So LinkedIn sharing contents, great, but you got to connect the grape in one way connected, you added me with a really common message, I sent you a voice message. And we started talking with your the ultimate way of how to use LinkedIn and Bravo to you, Andrew,

Andrew Stotz 05:39
thank you for that. I appreciate that. You know, I find it challenging. And you know, I'm struggling, always I'm a small business. And I'm always trying to figure out how to get out there. So I appreciate that. And I think, for the listeners out there, you know, I think it's a good example, that if you bring value to LinkedIn, and you go to people that you want to connect with, and you bring value to them. And I think one of the last big lessons I've learned is never, ever sell, you know, bring value, and then see how things work out. So

Edward Zia 06:13
the day when people want to buy your stuff they'll ask you, yeah, as simple as that. That's one of the reasons why Rola zoom. So one of the ways I bring value to not just LinkedIn, but beyond it is I run to twice a week, I'll run a free educational zoom on Monday. And I'll run a networking zoom on Thursday. And so I bring a lot of value just through my free events. And at the end of the events, I always get a few leads from people saying, Ed, I loved your webinar. Um, how can we work together? How can you coach me? When's the next workshop coming up? I want to come in, I couldn't agree more. The more value delivers, the more you're going to win big. And that's how you attract opportunities to yourself. You know,

Andrew Stotz 06:51
it's interesting, Edward, because I'm thinking, you know, when I was younger, I was thinking No, don't give up so much value because you know, yeah, but what I've learned is that opposites. Yeah, and just understanding something is great, you know, if you learn something, but implementing, and getting the real transformation is what's hard. And so a lot of people what people ultimately are paying for, is that transformation. Yeah, okay. I love what you're saying, I'm having a hard time making that work in my life. I want to attend your events, I want to, I want to get your support and how I'm really making it happen. And I think that's I do a course that we call the valuation masterclass boot camp, and I start off, it's a six week course it's intense. And I started off by telling this is a course not about information. It's about transformation six weeks from now, you're gonna be a different person. Whole news, practical skills. And I think that that's what I want. You know, think about it from your own perspective. If you think okay, I need to learn how to do Facebook ads or something. I want to take a course it's not just here. Here's a zillion things of information. How do I put this into practice? So I think that's my lesson about why giving out so much value can be even more valuable than you think.

Edward Zia 08:06
Oh, he here he will set a like, no wonder we get along, we think the same way.

Andrew Stotz 08:11
Exactly. Exactly. And we have the same for the listeners out there. We have the same hairstyle, too. Yeah,

Edward Zia 08:17
I suppose I'm more Arabic. So I look more like Ben Kingsley. And you're a white guy. So you look more like Bruce Willis. Is that a fair comment?

Andrew Stotz 08:25
Yes, I wish that I look more like Bruce Willis. He reminds me of a funny situation in my office many years ago when a bald headed older man who worked in my office, a very good friend of mine. He was talking to a client on the phone and they were going to meet the next day at a particular place. And they had never met before. They'd only talk through email. And he said, um, I'll be out, you'll see me I'm the guy that looks like Tom Cruise with a bit of a fat stomach and a bald head. And also a little bit of a frowny face.

Edward Zia 08:58
Yeah, absolutely. I like that.

Andrew Stotz 09:00
I look just like Bruce Willis. Except not. Well, yeah, now it's time to share your worst investment ever. And since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be. Tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it, then tell us your story. Yeah, I

Edward Zia 09:15
think I was actually having this conversation yesterday. And whilst I'm not so much talking about an asset, I think a lot of people get this point. The worst investment I ever made, was really overdoing it in my old jobs before I went to business on myself. So for example, I used to I still do like, I used to work night and day I used to work seven days a week for my employees. I'd often work through lunch, and I end up becoming after a series of bit of bad luck and bad decisions. I ended up becoming a homeless veteran, right, terrible, right? And NL now winning and I look back on that. I was saying this to someone the other day, it's like, well, I work seven days a week I work through lunches, I literally whip myself daily and I went up a home was better. So the logic was, why don't I live it up and have a good time? Right? Why did I do that to myself for when I'm homeless anyway? Right? And what the worst. So the worst investment I ever made was, I'd sacrifice myself, I put my employer first in my life second, right, that was a terrible decision, I was telling someone the other day. And it took me a long time to really flip that around. So hang on, put my life first and my job second, right. And when I say my life, that includes families, I'm married to kids and all that now. So in other words, phrasing that in a more, you know, what I think now is like, put my family and I first, then my job second in them. And having that reversal, and baking was very destructive to me. And it was clearly the worst investment I ever made. Because it led me to, you know, stress and burnout, my PTSD from a military, they split up. And that was a terrible investment. Again, it wound up in my destruction, right. So again, I look back on it, it's like, Why the hell did I bust my ass? I should just chill it out. It's gonna be homeless anyway, who cares? Why don't do that to myself? Why? Why? Why?

Andrew Stotz 11:06
So tell me can you remember a day or a period of time, maybe a specific day where it kind of all fell in where it just really wasn't working anymore? Even though the harder you worked? You weren't getting there? And you were sliding? Oh, yeah,

Edward Zia 11:21
I remember an interesting day where one of my employees lied to me, and very badly, right. And they, they and I, baby after that, but this is, but basically what it was the employer said, and if you get me x growth and make X dollars, I'll give you basically more staff and more money, right, actually double the target and actually got less staff out of it. So the person really double crossed me. Right. And, and from that day forward, I worked probably 5% of what I used to write. So I really harvested the situation after that. But the point that I'm making is that that was the moment where my old thinking started to crack. Right. So whilst I was still on that workaholic, you know, idiotic sense. That's where my reality started cracking, I started embracing new, better ideas. You know, there was also a yet I remember that moment. I was like, Yeah, it's like your realities breaking, and you're saying to quit, and not in a bad way. So hang on, I think I've got this all wrong. My thinking is totally off track. And it was, you know, again, if my thinking was so awesome, then how do I wind up a homeless veteran, you know, so crazy, led to my, my thinking, I did exactly what I was told, lived exactly the way I was brought up, and it led to my destruction.

Andrew Stotz 12:42
You know, I'm thinking about that. There's a great saying, if you imagine a pool cue, a snooker you know, table and a pool cue, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a solid, hard object and you you hit, you know, you swing it, you hit a ball and the ball moves. And then of course, we have the other idea is pushing on a string. And basically, it's like, a hard pool cue works really well, in the beginning of our career, like many things in our life, it works well, you know, we make this action and it causes this hour. But then there's a time where that cue starts to get a little bit mushy, and all of a sudden, you're not getting the outcomes that you thought and I think that we, we, we justify, you know, hey, well, okay, it's okay, it'll come back or whatever. But really, what's happening is that what worked in the past just isn't working anymore. Yeah, I think that's a great lesson for all of us to be like,

Edward Zia 13:36
I'll have I was actually in by the way, I'm not anti elder or anything, but I was having a shot at you know, you get some people from the previous generation, that just come along and say you should own a home and you should do this and do that. Right. Um, homes used to cost $20,000. And your annual wage was $20,000. Homes in Sydney now costs at least a million dollars in the annual wages, probably $60,000. Right. So it's a bit like those sort of characters they're pushing a model living that suits a totally different time and economic situation. And ultimately back to me where I destroyed myself was that I did not keep and I know where I know exactly where you're going. Obviously, I didn't keep my thinking up to date. I was you know, I love the por que analogy and it just led to my destruction. I wasn't thinking clearly. I was just listening to what I was told him, and it almost was the enemy. Right? And that's the way it goes. And I say this to anyone watching again, there is no bigger loser than anyone watching than me. Right? I'm the biggest loser there is and that's my biggest lesson everyone is questioning your own self question what you're hearing be a critical thinker. Don't believe what people tell you and don't believe what the media and the fake news tells you as well.

Andrew Stotz 14:53
Oh, man, I remember that. What's the lyrics of that song? I've been down so long. It looks like up To me,

Edward Zia 15:01
oh, I can. I know, I'm not sure what song that is, but I love it already.

Andrew Stotz 15:05
That's a great one. And also, you know, it's funny because as a financial analyst in my career, basically, you have to apply logic and reason to your analysis. And that's unlike other areas of our life where we have the luxury of applying emotion. But the reason why we have to apply logic and reason is because the market doesn't care about your emotion. Yeah. And if you go into the stock market, and you say, I'm gonna buy this company, because I think it's doing the right thing, you know, and you're not doing an analysis to think about logic and reason and analyzing it from a lot of different angles, you're very quickly lose your money and analyst all my career, people come to me all the time telling me and of course, I hear stories of loss. People come to me all the time and telling me that I bought this stock at 100. And it went down to 20. And I didn't know what to do. And eventually I lost, you know, almost all my money, and I'm never gonna invest again. And I'm thinking, you know, part of it is that you're bringing this emotional thing, whereas we need logic and reason. And I've just started writing about this. And just

Edward Zia 16:10
on that note, if I can be the simplest mistake they made is they didn't hire a professional, I started doing it themselves like I am. A lot of my clients are property, buyer's agents, right. And I would never ever buy a property myself without using a buyer's agent. And likewise, I would never ever invest in stocks unless I had someone that knew that knew that we're doing helping me. So it comes on the whole as well. You got to if you're not good at something, bring in a professional to help you out. A lot of people don't do that.

Andrew Stotz 16:41
Yeah. And it's definitely a lesson I've learned in this podcast, because I recently was selling a particular asset that I had. And I was, my assistant came to me and said, Well, I said, check out this particular lawyer that we know is good, see if he can help us to do this transaction. And she's like, well, it's gonna be expensive. And you know, we could do it. I could do the paperwork. I said, No, no, no, no. I'm the host of my worst investment ever podcast. I have learned the lesson that yeah, professional. So I'd like that. So maybe you could just go through kind of what are the lessons that you learned from this experience? How would you summarize them?

Edward Zia 17:15
Yeah, I think it's three parts. So no, lesson number one is question yourself and question everything you hear, don't just go on autopilot. Point one. I think Point number two is push back on when situations aren't going your way. If situations be at work life business relationship, there's something's not going your way, don't just sit there and hope it will get better do something about it. Again, that was another mistake that I made on things were not going my way, I'll just sit there and take it were these days, I'll just, I'll throw a spanner in the works. I'll be not not putting up with this. And lesson number three is and it was just what we said before Andrew, I know we agree on this one is get some help. You know, whatever it is, whatever the problem area, is, get an expert who understands that problem well to help you out. So if you got your psychological issues, get a coach or a psychologist, you know, if if you want to go and invest in the stock market, and you don't know what you're doing, get a professional that knows what they're doing to help you out and make better buying decisions.

Andrew Stotz 18:17
Great advice. So question everything, push back and get help, I think, a great summary of the lessons, maybe I'll just share a couple of quick things that I take away. You know, one of the things that I I've enjoyed in my life is I've had a relatively significant amount of independence in my blood, let's say. And basically, that has helped me to say, I don't believe anybody. And I tell my analysts that I mean, and people, I just say, start, if you want to be a great analyst start by saying, I don't believe anybody, I don't believe anything, I need proof, I need evidence. And once you start to apply that, then all of a sudden, you start realizing that people are just spouting off things all the time. And that's where I like what you're saying about question because, yeah, and I just finished a class at university that I was just recently teaching, and I told the students, there's forces of good and evil behind everything, everything, the most beautiful ESG, environmental, social governance, blah, blah, blah, there is a force of evil behind it and a force of good look for it. It's there

Edward Zia 19:31
was a very good example. And someone actually shared this on LinkedIn. Right? A very brave thing to share on LinkedIn. But now again, it's the Ukraine war. I'd love if the war would stop. You know, of course, I'm against war, right. However, you know, I come from an Arabic background and millions of Arabs have died in the past 20 years and wars, right? Millions of Mayan civilization, right. And no one cares about that. But now all of a sudden they care about Ukraine. Right, because the government says so it's like, um, so if a bunch of Arabs get killed, though, and clearly cares, but all of a sudden a bunch of people from you know, that region are getting killed. Now, it's a big problem. It's like, now I think it's bad. I think the Ukraine was bad. But why do you care? All of a sudden? Why don't you care about my civilization when they get murdered to this day?

Andrew Stotz 20:19
Yep. So that's, you know, talking about for the listeners out there, you know, how do you apply what we've learned from Edward question? pushback question, you know, and of course, you know it. And who controls the narrative out there in this world? Is it Russia is the US, whereas all the news coming out from you know, and push back, ask questions, it doesn't mean that you have to oppose everything. And this is an important one. I always tell people that, you know, think for yourself, but you don't have to shout out against everybody, but at least have freedom of your mind to think about it, and then make your own conclusions. Which

Edward Zia 20:58
establishment doesn't like that? The establishment does not like your message. I love it. I'm sure our listeners love it. But the swamp and the establishment despise you and what you're saying, don't they, Andrew?

Andrew Stotz 21:10
Yeah, it's definitely true. And I've been banned. Part of the reason why I got off Facebook was because they just kept banning me if you speak truth, which later, you know, in the beginning, it may sound like it's crazy, but later, it becomes truth. You're gonna get in trouble. And even on even on LinkedIn, so for the listeners out there, what I've decided to do with LinkedIn is just keep it straight on business. And you know, it's not a

Edward Zia 21:32
platform. Yeah, exactly. You know, famous LinkedIn, it says, well, in terms conditions, were a professional platform. We don't like anything inflammatory. Yeah, I kind of I respect that. Actually, I respect that. Because at the end of the day, it's LinkedIn business, and I just want you to stick to business. I'm good with that. Yep,

Andrew Stotz 21:51
I'm okay. If you want to go crazy,

Edward Zia 21:52
jump on Twitter, or, you know, true social, it's come out you got through social now. Go jump on, go. I like that actually, on LinkedIn. Stay professional, if you want to say we crazy stuff, go on Twitter, go on through social and knock yourself out to your heart's content.

Andrew Stotz 22:09
They go, where do we bring our truth? Now, based on what you learned from this story, and what you continue to learn, I want you to just put yourself in the shoes of a young man or woman who is working themselves into the ground for their career, you know, they're thinking they're doing the right thing. One action, one action, would you recommend our listeners take to avoid suffering the same fate?

Edward Zia 22:31
Stop, stop it is. And I know, you can tell by my body language and my, you know, uncomfortable reactions. Oh, I did that. I did that. And it look, it's you need to stop right, you need to stop right away. Now. Because I give an example I live to really sell this point home. I live in a beautiful part of Sydney now that unfortunately, you meet so many single moms here, right? And single moms not because of their choice, right? Great women who are single moms, right, and they're raising two or three kids by their own, and they've all got the same story or got the same story. It was all basically a husband, that would just be at work all the time and neglect them. And that would just leave to the family breakdown. Right? And I can tell that, again, I don't get one side of the story. But I can tell at least based on what they're telling me that the man and you know, that scenario, you know, they're just at work all the time. They're not putting their they're clearly putting their work first and their family first, right. And eventually something breaks, eventually something happens, right? That leads to that destruction. So if you are putting work first and you're in that poisonous cycle, I'm not saying quit your job or you know, you know, turn into Barbra Streisand and move to Hawaii or something, right? What I'm just simply saying is just stop for the moment and think about what you're doing and think about where you're going.

Andrew Stotz 23:54
Beautiful. So for the listeners out there today, let's take this challenge from Edward and find that area at work. It could even be other parts of your life that's not working. And it's bringing your pain and suffering. Start. He's not saying stop it. Like just quit your job. But he's saying take a moment. Stop, step back and look at it. I love it. So what's a resource that you'd recommend for our listeners from yourself or any other experience that you have?

Edward Zia 24:23
Well, one thing is I'm a huge fan of Elon Musk. I follow Elon stuff. I love Elon Musk highly recommended. Of course, Andrew Stotz, I highly recommend Andrew Stotz. So make sure you dig through his podcast. And after you've visited Elon Musk and Andrew Stotz, and you want more, please follow me on LinkedIn and check out some of the things I got to say but after you visit Elon Andrew, then you can go to me but make sure you start with Elon then Andrew.

Andrew Stotz 24:48
Yeah, I think I may change that order around but I appreciate

Edward Zia 24:52
Andrew Ilan. Andrew a no no, no, no.

Andrew Stotz 24:55
Elon Edward, let's go. But the point is We'll have the link in the show notes of your LinkedIn. And for those people that want to reach out and connect, you know, just reference it. You heard this interview, so he knows where you're coming from. All right, last question. What's your number one goal for the next 12 months?

Edward Zia 25:14
My number one goal is upscale and upscale and upscale. So for me, it's not so much doing new stuff, but it's growing what I have.

Andrew Stotz 25:24
That's interesting, because I was just meeting with my team. And he said, no new stuff.

Edward Zia 25:28
Yeah, no. And what a lot of people don't understand, I know, you get this, obviously, you're way smarter than me on this topic. But every what people don't understand is, every time you do something new, you're taking a chunk out of everything else you're working on, people don't seem to understand that.

Andrew Stotz 25:45
It's so hard to get that. And I think that's a big lesson just for everybody out there. Everything, everything is a trade off. And that's kind of what I was trying to tell my students is, when I said that there's forces of good and evil behind everything. What I was also saying is, everything's a trade off. Like if, if US wants to squeeze Russia, out of the global US dollar financial system, there will be a trade off that will force Russia to have to look at alternatives, maybe with China, and all of a sudden, America may not have the only way of transacting around the world. But you know, there's trade offs.

Edward Zia 26:22
Yeah, well, I gotta say, Americans got to watch it. Because at the end of the day, they're, they're squeezing themselves out of a lot of situations.

Andrew Stotz 26:30
Yeah, yeah, I can see that after many years living outside of America, when I look back, I think they're pushing the limits on the power that they have, and the influence instead of, I wish I left America, 30 years ago, if America just taken all the money that it spent on war, to build out its schools, its education, its infrastructure, it just people would be up, just, you know, so, you know, the world would be a much better place, but

Edward Zia 26:55
you're talking to a guy for an Arabic background, and my people are getting killed on a daily basis. No one cares. Nobody cares. No one cares. And no one will ever care. That's the sadness of it all. No one cares.

Andrew Stotz 27:09
Well, and amazing civilizations, too.

27:12
I mean, I have read left to them. Yeah,

Andrew Stotz 27:15
I've read a lot of history. And I think there's a lot of great books out there. One called the Silk Road, which I found really fascinating book, a fascinating book. But that helped me to understand that history started, you know, in the Middle East, in Africa, in, in these places us is, you know, a tiny, little history.

Edward Zia 27:37
And it goes back to what you were saying earlier is the establishment does not like people thinking for themselves, I hate it.

Andrew Stotz 27:44
And that's where I just received an email about diversity, equity and inclusion in a particular organization I'm involved in and I just thought to myself, if we're talking about diversity, I agreed we want diversity. But we also need diversity in opinion and a diversity in thought. And what's happening is that we're having a, we're having, we're losing that ability to have that conversation. I have never, in my 56 years on this earth have felt like I can't express my true feelings about something without reprisals. That has only happened in the last, let's say, three to four years. That's a new world.

Edward Zia 28:20
Yeah, my advice to you is just don't care.

Andrew Stotz 28:23
Nice. I like it. Alright, listeners, there you have it. Boy, we had a lot to discuss there. That's another story of loss to keep you winning. If you haven't taken the risk reduction assessment, I challenge you to go to my worst investment ever.com right now and start building wealth the easy way by reducing risk. As we conclude, Edward, I want to thank you again for joining our mission. And on behalf of a Stotz Academy, I hereby award you alumni status for turning your worst investment ever into your best teaching moment. Do you have any parting words for the audience?

Edward Zia 28:58
Oh, I just want to say I love the winners watching and remember, even Elon Musk was homeless. Just remember that.

Andrew Stotz 29:10
What an inspiration you are, and obviously Ilan, too, and that's a wrap on another great story to help us create, grow and protect our well fellow risk takers. This is your worst podcast host Andrew Stotz saying. Thanks for joining our mission. And I'll see you on the upside.